I Can’t Make It Any Clearer…
by: Amanda Quraishi on August 31st, 2010 | 40 Comments »
A couple weeks ago I saw this diagram on my friend’s Facebook page and stopped short:
For years since 9/11 I’ve been trying to make this very point, often talking until I was blue in the face to fellow Americans who have very little working knowledge of Islam.
One of the greatest challenges I face as an American Muslim activist is simply trying to convey the vastness and diversity of Muslims in the world. Whether from ignorance or sheer prejudice, many Americans (and other westerners) refuse to see the second largest religion on earth than anything but what is represented by a minority. This diagram clearly illustrates the sheer madness of that mindset.
Used by permission. (c) 2000 Mark A. Schmidt
Thank you thank you Chokran for this diagram and article–it will be shared–FANTASTIC GRAPHIC ILLUSTRATION to help folks understand
What can you expect – from those who in the 1800 followed a flag of virgin mary carrying – guiding them to the genocides on the american west – Manidestio’s – Walltstreet – manidesto to big to fail – manidestio – corporations – seek out cheap labor new world order.
The Money Changers are back in the Building.
Big Fancy robes – big unheard prayers – Big nightmares for all….
“What can you expect?” is asked from hurt become cynicism.
Unexpectedly, I received this diagram yesterday from someone connected with the Campaign for Liberty. Hmmmn…
Personally, I try not to draw unhinged conclusions because some of my ancestors were burned by the Spanish Inquisition. Nor that most of my mother’s family, still-speaking Judaeo-Spanish, were exterminated by the Nazis in Greece five centuries later.
Instead, I ask the world–and Jews in particular– to remember the achievements of Al-Andalus. It’s a good place to begin improving the “stories” from which many of our expectations derive –(even if that means looking it up :-)
“This diagram clearly illustrates the sheer madness of that mindset”
Unfortunately not nearly as well as this ex-Muslim illustrates the madness of following a 7th century mass-murdering, Jew-killing, Kaffir-torturing, booty stealing, polygamist paedophile Arab cult leader to… well anywhere, really
One thing you left out of your diagram, How much of the Muslim world supports terrorism? How much of the Muslim world are intolerant of Christians and Jews? After September 11, the Muslim world exploded in celebration. I truly feel for Muslim Americans because they are the ones who are tolerant.
Now a proposed Mosque located near Ground Zero has reopened the wounds. The backlash you are facing about the Mosque is not because of racism or intolerance. It is in opposition to the location of the Mosque. People do not want to prevent Muslims from being able to worship as they choose. Just move it 5 blocks away from the Ground Zero and many of your problems will go away.
Where in the Muslim world can a Christian practice their Religion? It is illegal to preach/practice Christianity in Iran, Saudi Arabia. How many other countries do not allow Christianity? Is Islam such a weak Religion that it cannot withstand Christianity being preached? Without fear and intimidation, the Muslim world would crumble and fall to pieces and there would be mass exitting to another religion. Is this what Muslims believe? Ok, Muslim Americans prove that to be wrong but is this what the mainstream Muslims believe in the Countries where Christianity is outlawed?
Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God, the God of Abraham. We have some differences but the simularities by far outweigh the differences. We need to see the simularities and not the differences: be tolerant of our differences and unite with our simularities. There is no reason why we should be fighting amoung ourselves.
So the solution to the problem (as you perceive it) is that America should be more like Saudi Arabia? I kinda like my country. If I wanted to live in a Christian version of Saudi Arabia, I would already have moved. It is wonderful to live in a diverse nation where I can eat all kinds of food, learn from all kinds of people, hear all kinds of languages, appreciate all kinds of art…well, you get the picture.
Actually, come to think of it, America is cosmopolitan, as Cordoba was during the middle ages, or Athens in its time.
First of all there were no Muslims celebrating 9/11, among many frauds carried out to create and perpetuate the official 9/11 myth was CNN broadcasting, years old video of Muslims celebrating, on 9/11.
Fact, the only known persons seen celebrating 9/11 were five Israeli Agents seen on the Jersey shore filming the tower collapses. The woman, who saw them, and called the police indeed thought they were Arabs. Using the desciption of their van, the police arrested the 5 Israelis re-entering NYC! While thousands of Muslims with no connection to any terrorist group were being illegally detained without cause, a NY judge let the 5 Israelis go free as celebrating the event was not a crime! After their release, they admitted they had been sent to film the event! Coincidentally, a Mossad cell would fail in an attempt to blow up a member (of Arab extraction) of the U.S. House, in the next couple days, 2 of the 4 agents escaped the FBI, but the leader was caught and took an L-pill. Course, in 2000, the FBI broke up the largest spy ring it ever caught, again, Israeli.
Fact, the most important act to the success of the 9/11 attacks was the Bush-Cheney decision to suspend FAA-NORAD intercept protocols: June 1st 2001, the day Ashcroft stopped taking commercial flights. Course, that’s if you don’t count, the treason by the 5 Supremes in installing the two psychopaths in the White House in the first place.
Claim: OBL and his Al Qaeda were behind 9/11. Fact. OBL made a radio broadcast CONDEMNING the 9/11 attacks. Before 1 pm, I heard a report of this OBL broadcast over American radio which happened to be playing in my lawyer’s office which I was visiting to pick up some paperwork in regards to my whistleblower suit. Indeed on 4/19/2002, FBI Director Mueller admitted that despite the seizure of tons of Al Qaeda documents in Tora Bora, the FBI had no evidence to link any Muslims with 9/11.
Claim: Burning jet fuel caused the Towers to pancake. Fact. The videos show no pancaking but rather all the signs of a well controlled demolition of the weight-baring core elements, pancaking on the otherhand would have left the cores and top floors standing. Jet fuel burns barely hot enough to soften structural steel (2750) at the sites. Soft steel doesn’t just break, it bends and strechtes first. UF Thermate residue was found at the sites. UF Thermate is a military explosive that cuts steel like butter. Pictures of the bases of core elements still standing show angled cuts. The core element sections for the Towers had been too large to forge in the U.S., even back in the mid-60′s, so had to be imported from Japan.
Almost from the moment Silverstein bought the Towers, they were subjected to a massive rewiring, supposedly to upgrade the LAN lines. CAT cable isn’t any better than it was 20 years ago, it just has been subjected to better testing and hence higher certification. In reality lines were just added to control future demolition. The weekend before 9/11, the Tower security system was shutdown, clearing the way for the charges to be set in place.
The engine found in the NYC street was a CFM-56. As a former holder of an FAA repairman’s license, I can personally swear no 757 or 767 uses that engine. Only 737′s use it and some smaller military cargo craft. The single engine! found at the Pentagon was barely one third the size of the PW2000′s (or equivalent) used on the twin engine 757 that allegedly hit the Pentagon. The survailence camera shots show a small plane or cruise missile not a 757. No wing wreakage was found outside the Pentagon! What happened to the 757′s 127 foot wingspan? Before the partial collapse of the 70′ section, there was only an 11′ hole, too small for a 757 fuseluge. The mass and momentum of the engines (heaviest and densest structures) would have prevented the wings from folding up and following the fuseluge in.
Not one Arab name was on any of the 4 official passenger manifests! The Bush admin. requested UAL and AA pull those lists from their websites just as on 9/12 the Andrews AFB website was cleansed of the two fighter squadrons stationed there. The 113th (F-16′s) had been there awhile as the squadron chosen to provide a flight of chase planes for AF1. Clinton ordered a second (F-18, Marine) squadron there for pure capital defense after some earlier terrorist attacks.
Atta was known to be fluent in German. But when Atta’s flight instructor tried to start a conversation to brush up on his German, the Mossad agent playing Atta refused and was angry at the request. Similarly, French is virtually Moussaoui’s native language, being an Algerian who lived in Paris, yet when his flight instructor tried to speak French with him, the Mossad impersonator like Atta’s stormed away. The judge at Moussaoui’s trial refused to give him the death penalty precisely because the gov’t failed to prove the case to the judge. The Mossad motto is “Waging war thru deception,” after all.
My own experience of Christian missionaries while living in Russia has ONLY been with abusively aggressive evangelism. In the course of a television interview about my paintings of my visions, I was subjected by the reporter (a newly converted “Christian”) to a scathing, profanity-laced, on-camera assault. No questions were asked. Since then, I have heard that such behavior is actually quite typical, and is one reason for Russia’s reigning in of foreign (read “American”) proselytizing. And Russia is a Christian country. Why on earth would Muslim countries want to unleash such vitriol? We totally need to clean up our own act before we point ANY fingers.
On this, the sixth anniversary of the siege of the school at Beslan in the North Caucasus, it may be prudent to recall that “From the days of Prophet Muhammad, sexual terror has been an integral part of Islamic Jihad. The siege of the Beslan School by Islamic Jihadis in 2004 was no exception…”
Mellow, peaceful Sufis? So Rauf’s mosque is just fine & dandy?
Presently, a Sufi Naqshbandi leader, Shamil Basayev, who envisions himself to be in the mold of legendary 19th century Naqshbandi North Caucasus jihadists, such as his namesake Imam Shamil, plays a key role in the ongoing Chechen jihad against the post – Soviet Russian government. Basayev, it should be noted, not only appears to have Caliphate dreams , he orchestrated the brutal Beslan massacre of at least 331 schoolchildren in North Ossetia, September 3, 2004
“Presently, a Sufi Naqshbandi leader, Shamil Basayev…” quote was from “Sufi Jihad?” by Andrew Bostom.
Oh yes!
Remember David Koresh? How about Savanarola?
Self proclaimed “Christians!”
Oh dear!
How dare we tolerate all those murderous “Christian” churches in our towns and cities?
What horrors do you supppose THEY have in mind for the rest of us now?
Don Thomann,
Those who engage in Islamic jihad are simply faithfully following the depraved example of the mass-murdering “prophet” Mohammed and his earliest followers.
Those who engage in acts of violence are certainly not following the example of the historical Jesus of Nazareth and his earliest followers, who — while they may (or may not) have been entirely deluded about the imminent apocalyptic arrival of the Kingdom of God within their own lifetimes — cannot credibly be accused of the routine use of rape, torture, looting and mass murder to further their imperial aims.
There is a difference. Please don’t pretend not to understand.
Rob, you speak as though you have some authority on the subject of historical Islam. Where did you get your education?
It’s interesting because I know quite a few scholars (Muslim and non-Muslim) who don’t actually agree with your interpretation of Islamic history. However, these are only people with PhD’s and/or who teach at the university level. Therefore, I would be extremely keen to learn more from someone as educated on the subject as you seem to be.
Amanda
p.s. If you say “Google” we’re all going to laugh at you.
Amanda,
It is the issue of truth that is at stake here, not my — or anyone else’s — “authority”.
The Koran, Sunnah and Hadith are available in print and online from a number of sources including this one here
Denial and discounting of any evidence of Mohammed’s depravity — even from sources considered authentic by Muslim scholars — is par for the course with Islamists (that’s Taqqiya, after all) so I won’t engage in a game of scripture quoting ping-pong with you.
Ali Sina has conveniently gathered the incriminating evidence into one place at the website I quoted above. Disprove him (as all others have so far failed to do) and you could be a champion of Islam and win a lot of money too!
That’s what I thought.
:-)
ADQ
Amanda,
You still have yet to disprove the claim that the historical Mohammed was a rapist, a paedophile, a torturer, a mass murderer, a looter and a terrorist.
As for your puerile grinning “smiley” Amanda — do you really think that the trail of raped, mutilated, tortured, murdered victims that Mohammed’s depraved example has incited over the last 14 centuries is something to laugh about?
That is the psychopathology of Islam.
What precisely were the Crusades and the conquest of the new world other than mass murder, rape, torture, etc. in the name of Christ? How about centuries of pogroms? The inquisition? The Salem Witch trials? Why on earth would we want to return to that????
The Christianity you are preaching also doesn’t sound like anything Jesus ever taught. Frankly, it sounds like hate.
Maybe we should return to text books claiming that the earth is flat and that if we try to sail to Bermuda we’ll fall off the edge.
Hey Rob,
I don’t know how to break it to you but YOU are the one who has come to a website about interfaith dialogue and begun throwing slanderous comments around about a centuries-old faith tradition followed by 1/4 of the planet– without, I might add, a formal education or any practical experience on the subject. The arrogance is staggering!
Any “truth” you seek is only to support your pre-existing prejudices. If you actually wanted to know the truth you’d pay a visit to your local mosque and/or university department of middle eastern/Islamic studies and engage in objective, academic study on the subject like most intelligent people who want to learn about Islam do.
Instead, you’ve decided to get “educated” about Islam by Islamophobes and “apostate” Muslims. You have decided that sitting in front of a computer and looking at anti-Muslim websites full of non-academic “research” culled from dubious sources that someone ELSE compiled qualifies you to condemn 1.4 BILLION people. And then—THEN! You claim that it is the 1.4 Billion people are the ones that are psychopaths. It’s just too much.
If and when you actually acquire real knowledge (and some damned humility) you are welcome to engage me in a productive dialogue.
Ridiculous.
Amanda,
You are making assumptions about my educational & cultural experience that you are in no position to substantiate.
You stillhave yet to disprove the claim that the historical Mohammed was a rapist, a paedophile, a torturer, a mass murderer, a looter and a terrorist.
Please try to stick to the issue at hand.
[B] If and when you actually acquire real knowledge (and some damned humility) you are welcome to engage me in a productive dialogue. [/B]
Amanda,
Regarding “apostate” Muslims, as an “apostate” Jew who is now a secular humanist, I would be more inclined to have confidence in someone whose journey has paralleled mine out of tradition. Also, it does seem to me that apostates are better able to give the “inside scoop” on certain matters that religious scholars would be inclined to gloss over, and that scholars coming from outside the tradition might be unaware of.
At the same time, I have noticed that some people who feel exiled from their homeland–whether a literal land like Cuba or more figuratively an ideology like a religion–can become quite bitter and over-the-top in their hostility to their origins. Could you elaborate on what it is about some “apostate” writings that you find troubling?
Rick,
There seems to be a fad amongst anti-Muslim circles to recruit people who have “left Islam” and want to talk about how evil and miserable it is. In the link Rob provided you’re taken to a site that is supposedly written by a former Muslim. It’s more akin to the bitterness and hatred you referred to than a thoughtful, balanced critique of the religion.
Furthermore, someone claiming to be a former Muslim who makes broad, sweeping statements about the religion as a whole is either disingenuous or has lost any ability to be objective.
Like any other religion, Islam is multi-faceted. There are centuries of history, layers of interpretation, an unlimited number of personal, social and cultural ideals that have been incorporated into it as it exists today. I am always extremely wary of people who want to put something as vast as a world religion in a box and label it.
There will be–there ARE differences in the way people worship (or choose consciously to NOT worship, in your case). I am completely comfortable with someone telling me that they don’t believe my religion is correct and that they believe their faith tradition is superior for whatever reason. Hell, I get disagreed with several times a day. I’m used to it.
But making things up and rudely, arrogantly attacking another person’s faith based on lies, half-truths, and the angst-y testimonials of disenfranchised individuals who left that particular religion isn’t the same as a respectful disagreement. And I don’t feel that I (or ANYONE) should have to tolerate it.
ADQ
Yes, you can’t make your position much clearer or any less grotesque. It is not Islamophobia. It is Islamistophobia, Salafiphobia and Wahabiphobia. I got to know a number of Muslims while my late Wife struggled against a fatal disease. They were all kind and generous. Your diagram slanders them all. The rejection of Imam Rauf’s Ground Zero project is the rejection of a Wahabi Arc de Triomphe funded from the same pool of bloody money that funded the 9/11 attack itself. Your categorization of criticism of anything involving a Muslim as an attack on the faith is classic jihadi rant.
Islamic “charities” are ~90% Saudi funded and driven by a Wahabi-Salafi abrogationist theology of perpetual war on the Kufaari. The charities (S$W) provide for Muslin needs including weapons, and training as in Somalia, Gaza, Afghanistan, and Indonesia. Beecher’s Bibles (1850s Kansas) are remarkable for a western charity but routine for Islam. Despite the contortions of the 9/11 Commission, S$W were clearly the sponsors of the 9/11 attacks. The S$W “educational” texts persistently identify the Kufaari as apes and pigs who will burn in Hell (so why wait?) and women as a lower species. Recent notorious Wahabi fatwahs prescribe the death penalty for co-education and de-criminalize the taking of exposed meat (rape of “uncovered” women). These Wahabi, whose founders were praised in Imam Rauf’s writings, are the de facto face of Islam, unchallenged except for some fatwahs with no legal effect. Rauf’s structure near Ground Zero, hardly a store front mosque, will be financed by “loans” and “donations” from the same tainted S$W pool as was the 9/11 attack itself. The GZ location is crucial to Rauf plans. The non-English subtitle to his book is “A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa…” The refusal of Rauf to describe Hamas as terrorist is instructive. Rauf has said “The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians,” but he then evades, asserting that “United States’ policies were an accessory to the crime that happened”, bringing up Hiroshima, the Klu Klux Klan, and US alliances with “oppressive regimes”. Rauf obviously misspoke; he must have meant non-Sharia or non-Islamist oppressive regimes since he seems happy to visit Hamas and the Wahabi redoubt. In light of the funds available in S$W and HAMAS’ coffers, Rauf must have felt a need to honor Muslim exceptionalism which demands that no Muslim criticize another lest such words generate fitnah/dissention among the faithful. This Kufaari asks, of what worth is the man who would not raise his voice in protest at a knife aimed at another’s back because the fist holding the knife also held some familiar prayer beads and the glint of loose gold? I hope that you will forgive the agitation of those Kufaari who are only aware of the brutal Wahabi face of Islam and the silence of the knife and thus might conclude that their opponent is the entirety of Islam. They will hopefully get to meet the kind of Muslims I met and not those associated with the Rauf’s abomination.
looks like even a diagram wont help—some people are so blind—lightening could strike and they still won’t “get it”…….
It is the issue of truth that is at stake here, ……
Mr X grandmother was a cultist who “raped, mutilated, tortured, murdered ” all her life and she and others of his family engaged in “mass-murdering, Jew-killing, Kaffir-torturing, booty stealing, polygamist paedophile” practices. They also have a genetic flaw making them prone to deception and any denials—even if reasonable and backed by facts—must be immedeatly attributed to their genetic flaw of deception and swept aside. The only truth is the one that I claim to be true!………
—Now Mr X…you want to make any denials? refute anything?…..feel free……
And—in case there was anyone intellectually-challenged enough to believe the above BS—-its FICTION.
The above diagram was created by a non-Muslim, who is credited.
Most of you have probably heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a formerly Moslem Somali woman who has been persecuted by Islamic fanatics because of her outspoken defence of those women oppressed by these fanatics.She lived in Holland where she was a member of Parliament, and now lives in the USA, working for the right wing American Enterprise Institute. A new book by her has been released called “Nomad” about her harrowing experiences brought up in one violent version of Islam, which seems to be widespread. Her book also describes her life over the last 10 years or so. Her dedication to the liberation of those oppressed Moslem women is very deep ansd sincere; her right-wing views on other matters unfortunately are very irritating . Her criticisms ,though, of Western feminists’ relative silence concerning the oppression of those women under the yoke of violent patriarchical Moslem men is very accurate , as far as I am concerned. See also the work by Phyllis Chesler, “The Death of Feminism”.
Marco
“Her dedication to the liberation of those oppressed Moslem women is very deep and sincere;”—-NO it is not—-her Islam-bashing is simply an ego trip and promo for her books in a climate of islamophobia. There are real women who are actually doing the hard work and making a difference without bashing Islam—Dr. Amina Wadud, Layla Bhaktiar, Dr Aziza Al-Hibri….etc are but a few names—-there are many more. Muslim women WANT to remain Muslim and follow Islam and those who bash Islam are not doing these women any favors……nor are they going to be taken seriously by anyone in a Muslim society—as they will simply be written off as the Islamophobes they are. If you want to bring meaningful change….you have to work within the needs of the human beings (men and women) of the community). Ignoring their needs and simply complaining about it to a “Western” audience doesn’t do anything.
{Tikkun: Sorry, I went a bit techno in the second comment. In this part of the swamp source information is expected as a courtesy and/or as part of our various trades. (I get laughed at for providing the source URLs for the jokes and cartoons in my emails.) The link selection was from multiple sources to avoid the impression that it all was some bloggy cabal. It was not intended as an insult or a call to battle. Possibly, this….} Take a deep breath and let me try again. I did not mention, refer to, or hint at Al Qaeda. This is not about someone sending Osama of the High Rocks some camp trunks full of $100 bills. My comments were directed at a commonly held view of the Islamic “charity” system and its influence by the Wahabi-Salafi Islamists in Saudi Arabia. A part of the co-existence agreement between the Wahabi-Salafists and the Saudi royal house has been a significant degree of Wahabi influence over what projects the oil zakat (charity contribution) is spent on. From the time of Mohammad, the “charity” has been used to supply whatever an Islamic community needs. Officially, that is the church roof and furnace fund, flood relief and school supplies for the kiddies. In western religious charities, Beecher’s Bibles (shipping cases marked as Bibles from the printers, containing Sharps Rifles (?), with boxes of ammunition below and layers of Bibles above) for the loyal God-Fearing anti-slavery population of Kansas before the U.S. Civil War, are an aberration. For Islamic charities it has always been part of the program. Since Islam has frequently been situated amongst hostile populations, Islam among Kufaari, Shia among Sunni, and Wahabi among common “apostate” Sunni, the charity finances were, and are, profoundly opaque. In modern terms, it is money laundering. Once the money is in the system, the Saudis claim no further responsibility. The outcome is that the most of the schools, madrassas, and mosques that get “assistance” are those which agree to cooperate with Wahabi interests by using “approved” books, publications, and staff. The problem comes from Wahabi abrogationist beliefs. Some Muslims (I have no idea of the percentages) believe that the Quran is complete and perfect, a copy of the original guarded by angels. Early verses ordering Muslims to be just and peaceful with Kufaari neighbors and the later “kill’em where you find’em” verses are accepted as responses to very different circumstances. The Wahabi abrogationists profoundly distrust “theology” since it admits of human weaknesses so they have adopted a theology holding that later elements of the text abrogate or replace earlier ones on the same topic. The “kill’em where you find’em” from an ancient war environment abrogates all others and is therefore the only command which is in force. The harsh verses from an earlier war now dictate an eternal war against the Kufaari until Wahabi Islam rules the world. There is a constant drum beat of charities closed and officials prosecuted for funding violent groups, but that means, “one down and hundreds to go”. The Wahabi control of the oil zakat is the problem with the Ground Zero triumphalist structure. Imam Rauf is running a RICO (Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization), or more accurately a JICO, funded from the same bloody charity pool as the 9/11 operation that destroyed the Towers. Imam Rauf is not building a locally funded mosque. The objection to the structure (for me, and I believe most others) is about the persistent use of Wahabi controlled charity funds to support hostile indoctrination and terror operations, and in this case, to build a 15 story monument overlooking the site of their most memorable achievement. It may be hard to see, but the objection to the project is not an objection to a Muslim presence in Manhattan. Historically, the zakat came from the entire Muslim community and many people considered what projects were to be funded. In recent times ~90% of the charity comes from Saudi oil and the dispersal of much of those resources is profoundly influenced by those with the Wahabi-Salafist enmity against the Kufaari West. The Wahabi literature is in fact sprinkled with comments noting the opinion that the majority of Sunni Muslims are so far from the “correct” abrogationist theology that they are in effect apostates from Islam. The Wahabi and their money are a danger to be resisted. The Wahabi are not “Islam”.
Islamic charities in the U.S. are just as worthy of donating money to as any Jewish, Christian, or other religious charities in our country.
There is a simple reason for this.
If an Islamic charity is functioning in the United States of America 10 years after 9/11, you better believe the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, the IRS, and every other government agency out there has scrutinized every aspect of its business and charitable endeavors.
Furthermore, Muslim Americans and their charities, mosques, community centers, etc. are the issue here. I don’t question whether a charity in Saudi Arabia funds Hamas. I do question the false assumption that guilt by association should be the basis of any accusation against fellow Americans.
I haven’t found any Homeland Security warnings or controversies about Muslim charitites, so the diagram that Amanda has been kind enough to show everyone is ABSOLUTELY correct.
In translation, the term “dangerous friend” refers to a word or phrase that looks or sounds the same in two languages or jargons but which has significantly different meanings. In common English “democratic” refers to a form of governance by members of a society directly or indirectly, i.e. in a democracy or in a republic. In Marxist ideology, a post-revolutionary “democratic” state may be one in which the governance is restricted to the ideologically advanced cadre until such time as the mass of the population is sufficiently indoctrinated as to assume control of its own destiny, i.e. an oligarchy or dictatorship. Romantic “love” refers to a close emotional and probably physical relationship associated with “eros”. The “love” of many Christian authors, agape, now denotes a thoughtful, unconditional and “spiritual” relationship. It is generally advisable to be aware of such differences, especially when out in public.
The term “charity” also has different meanings in different cultures. There is one charitable focus involving food, clothing, and shelter which is probably shared the world over. In historical Islam, the charitable support has also included weapons to defend, or advance the cause of, Islam. Beecher’s Bibles are a rarity in the Western concept of charity; the Friends (Quakers) tend to shy away from RPGs and high explosives. In the last half century, the Islamic charity system has under gone a marked shift toward aggressive anti-western “education” and weapons support as the zakat from Saudi oil, controlled by those with the Wahabi-Salafi ideology, rose to supply ~90% of the charity funding. This is not the diapers, soup kitchens, and tents kind of “charity” anymore. The highly entangled funding, the constantly changing array of groups in different countries makes appreciating the energy and goals of the Wahabi brand of “charity” difficult.
An earlier post with a large sampling of links disappeared into the void, possibly do to size limitations or a preference for discussion over competing sources. Perhaps a few links will be acceptable to provide some background on Islamic “charity”. meforum.org/2438/zakat-muslim-charity-in-context; ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/key-issues/protecting/charities_execorder_13224-a.shtml; truthandgrace.com/muslimcharity.htm; analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=3567&page=1; hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/saudi_textbooks_final.pdf. My personal view is that the entire Islamic charity system has been permeated with efforts to spread hate along with weaponry with which to act on the result. Imam Rauf’s project will be funded from the same pool of bloody zakat as that which funded the 9/11 attack. He has paid special attention to building “bridges” with HAMAS and those in Saudi Arabia who are at the core of the anti-western attack.
I am not anti-Muslim. I got to spend most of a year in hospitals and clinics while my late wife struggled with the disease that eventually killed her. Those of her friends and the staff, who are Muslim, were without exception kind and generous people. I probably would not have survived without their presence. These are not the people providing support and materiel for terror operations. I can see the difference and hope you can also.
Interestingly, the most religiously tolerant state was the Caliphate of Cordova until Spain overthrough it and expelled all Muslims and Jews in 1492. The Quran teaches tolerance of Jews and Christians as we all worship the same “book” and the God of Abraham. The Old Testament is in large part a tale of mass murder with the blessing of a “loving” God by Jews of peoples who lived on land the Jews wanted much like today. Course those Jews also treated women rather shabbily. Most of today’s Jews aren’t Semites at all but are descended of converts from a Turkic tribe in central Russia. DNA research by Hebrew Univ. has confirmed that the Sephardim and Arabs are Semitic brothers, while the Ashkenazim are of an Indo-Aryan line. The Ashkenazim treat the Sephardim as second class citizens in Israel, btw. Hamas even recognizes this dichotomy and recognizes the Sephardim have a right to live in Palestine. Israel by refusing to comply with the original UN resolution creating it and a Palestinian state, deligitimizes itself. Its formal right to exist is dependent on a Palestinian state. Course, not being natives to the area, an Ashkenazi Israel has no moral basis. It is a Zionist fraud.
The U.S. has been the world’s leading terrorist state for a long time. GOP Presidents have overthrown more democracies than Hitler and Stalin combined. Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan and both Bushes are/were mass murders. Ford condoned mass murder in East Timor
Israel is the second leading terrorist state. Indeed, the Likud party began as the Ir Gun terrorist organization before there was a modern Israel. Begin may have ernestly recanted terrorism, his followers did not. Ben Gurion’s stated objective was not peaceful by any means, regional hegemony.
All Christian churches ignore parts of the Bible contrary to their adopted goal. The opposition to abortion is pure sexism and is CONTRARY to the Bible and thus Mosaic law which holds life begins with the first breath as the story of Adam’s creation, is the metaphor for human birth. In the US abortion bans began after the first success of the suffragettes in Wyoming. While maternal health was also a concern, as doctor training in gynecology was literally in its infancy and medical curricula standards were non-existant, the true reason was to punish women for seeking the vote by denying them the one right they had at the inception of the USA.
Hi Amanda
I was just going to write thanking you for the diagram it is a wonderful graphic. Then I read the many vitriolic comments that followed and I just have to repeat anon’s comment: looks like even a diagram wont help – some people are so blind – lightening could strike and they still won’t “get it”…….
Louise
Dear Amanda,
Thank you for your efforts at clarifying. There are some who have understood when they have heard you explain this to them verbally, many will benefit from your diagram and finally get it; but there are some that no matter how you present facts to them, they will not get it. Their hearts are overflowing with hatred of the other and they are blind to the truth. And then there are those “former” Muslims who have found such audiences in America and are exploiting them by making money through sales of books and charging them exorbitant fees to bash Islam. They each are exploiting the other and will do this senselessly forever. Keep up the good work and rest assured that the honorable Jews, Christians, Muslims and others will appreciate and learn.
Mr. Daigneault, you bring almost as threads to the knot as I do. This poor machine has over 35,000 bookmarks/favorites plus more than a few index files. I usually can’t find anything.
Regarding the Jews, a one page summary on the topic in Science ((328) page 1342, June 11, 2010) suggests that the Ashkenazi Jews (and other Jewish subgroups) were mid-eastern with similarities to non-Jewish groups such as Druze and Cypriots. Cordoba is Rashomon with turbans and yarmulkes. Initially the Jews were treated well by the Muslim invaders during some Golden Age, I suspect since they needed help holding the cities while fighting the resisting Christians at the periphery, but as the territories of occupation stabilized and the Muslim population grew, the Jews were presented with the usual options of convert, leave (the country and your valuables) or die (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain). Maimonides was a Jew who appreciated the intellectual environment of Cordoba so much that he and his family fled to the Mid-East. By the time of the European re-conquest of Spain in 1492 the few Jews left in the peninsula were invited to leave, since there was both anti-Semitism and anti-collaborationist prejudices against them. In certain circumstances such as being a Jew or heretic (my church is still on the list of those “in schism” with the Church of Rome) or having an interesting scientific thesis which offended some Bible literalists, I might appreciate dhimmi status somewhere in the caliphate as opposed to playing hide and seek with the Domini Canes. In general, the toleration shown by Islam to people of the book is probably appropriate for a section of the proposed DSM-V on paraphilias; masochism NOS. For even a useful dhimmi, humiliation was the core of toleration (nlp.cs.nyu.edu/meyers/controversial-wikipedia-corpus/english-html/main/main_0195.html; dhimmitude.org/archive/Rights-of-Non-Muslims.pdf, dhimmi.com/victimsgallery.htm, religion.wikia.com/wiki/Dhimmi, newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dhimmi). Even if you did not mind groveling, having your beard yanked, getting slapped, and getting spit in your face when it was tax time, you could never be sure that the blessed toleration would last. As in Cordoba, during times of unrest the dhimmi, both Jew and Gentile, received the affections of the Muslim mob. An angry neighbor, a rumor, revenge, or some Imam spinning up a crowd before Ramadan and all that peace and toleration is gone (mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/203181.php, jihadwatch.org/2009/10/egypt-muslims-stone-coptic-churches-in-dispute-that-started-over-christian-man-dating-muslim-woman.html, bsimmons.wordpress.com/2010/07/05/indonesian-muslims-call-for-halt-to-christianization/, hyscience.com/archives/2008/03/arab_poll_resul.php, ad naus.). I’d put up a pretty big fight before I’d be forced to take my family into that kind of hell-hole. Maybe that is just me.
The legal claims in the “Palestine” situation are convoluted and dependent on which “facts” are utilized. If Jordan (aka Transjordan) had made some arrangements for thousands of educated, industrious refugees, that country would be the power house of the Mid-East even without oil reserves. Unfortunately, the Grand Mufti of Bavaria crawled out of Adolf’s laundry hamper screaming, “Kill Jews! Kill Jews! Kill Jews!” When the regimes in the region that had caught some of the Nazi-Flu played the murder/genocide card, they by their own actions changed the game to winner-take-all and then lost almost the entire pot. Since there was no question raised then about genetic details of the “Yids” which the Arabs were going to murder then, it is hard to see the relevance of such an argument now. That does however bring up a semi-comparable situation for consideration. In “Del Norte” we have approximately 20 million unwelcome illegal alien Hispanic job thieves wandering around. It isn’t strictly comparable to 1948 Palestine since most of these aren’t educated even in their native language and their home governments are too incompetent to generate a pogrom that would be noticeable above the normal weekend chaos, but still. Do you think that The Grand Mufti de Gringo should demand mass human drives down I-5, along the old trails south from Kansas (Trail of Tortillas?) and on barges on the Ohio and the Tom-Bigbee, or maybe opt for more community involvement with a lot of local events centered around trenches dug in the parking lots of area shopping malls. Perhaps your response to this Gringo hypothetical might enlighten me about the outrage so many have about the 1948 challenge match and the subsequent refusal of Israel to readmit a swarm of displaced and hostile Arabs. (I don’t particularly like the Israelis. They make me itch. A beloved Uncle was career Navy and could easily been on board the USS Liberty.)
The “Salafist” Bible strict constructionists are a problem here in the mid-west where their agitations lead to intrusions into reproductive choice, education about sexual identities, and other common sense personal matters. Yet I try to give the Devil his due. The sometimes harsh laws of the Bible are limitations, not mandates (or so I was taught and have since read). The maxim of “an eye for an eye” means “no more than” an eye for an eye no matter the relative prestige of the involved parties; this is not a mandatory penalty. The Bible sanctions killing a disobedient child but those who delve into the history of Talmudic law report few applications of such a penalty. In Sharia law, by comparison, it is currently not a crime to kill a child or a child of a child. In the Islamist world there are incessant reports of woman, usually, shot, strangled, mutilated, tortured, stoned, etc because they didn’t obey Daddy or “might” have caused dishonor (europenews.dk/en/node/33742). The Westboro Baptist Church of the Stinking Excrement taunts its victims by noting that their disgusting demonstrations are always within the limits of the law (no trespass, no battery, no assault). There generally are no such scruples in Islamist countries or neighborhoods. Taking “exposed meat” (rape of an uncovered woman) is not a crime in Sharia (faithfreedom.org/2009/03/16/living-under-sharia-the-plight-of-women-in-saudi-arabia/; muqata.blogspot.com/2010/08/what-leftwing-organizers-dont-tell.html). All of which gets to the “democracy” comment. My view of a “democracy” is that of a “liberal” democracy with some sense of the rights of the individual and of tolerance of disagreement. The rationale for interference with “democracies” was that they were, or were interpreted as (which is admittedly a big rub), proponents of the “one man, one vote, one time” form of government. Germany in the 1930s is the classic example of such a regime. Intentions for irreversible alterations in government, by whatever hostile ideology, were the nominal trigger for intervention “in the neighborhood”. Don’t only blame the GOP. The Wahabi-Salafi literature is quite open about gaining the mass to institute permanent Sharia law which disenfranchises women and all non-Muslims from further effective political involvement (europenews.dk/files/Final_Sharia_Law_and_English_Law_Table.pdf, sheikyermami.com/2010/08/30/sharia-for-dummies/). That is hardly a democracy. The history of Islamic conquests is not pretty (freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1653953/posts). By the way, Palestine is the name derived from that of the Philistines of classical times, a people who were not Arabs. Perhaps we might ask the survivors from the Armenians up the coast what became of the original Philistine people.
I grant you that the US and the West in general have had some ugly bits in their histories, but it all pales in comparison to the consistent brutality of Islamic conquest and rule. The Wahabi-Salafi abrogationists have distorted Islam even further in modern times and have the lust for the power from which they have been too long denied. In the early 19th century they only killed thousands before they were suppressed; this time they have the resources of the oil zakat to finance some of their real nightmares.
PS: Please note, I do know the difference between Muslim friends and the actions of the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR, 9/11 attackers, HAMAS, the Wahabi-Salafi zakateers and, oh, Imam Rauf.
Louise, Monir and Amanda,
I must apologize for my key-board-itis. I am familiar with Venn diagrams but your latest comment suggests those “others” who sent the “vitriolic” comments have missed an important point. Me too, I guess.
I am concerned about what is hopefully a small group based in Saudi Arabia financing actions which are detrimental to other nations. These are not the Muslims friends my wife and I knew. My argument is only directed at the specific group of those Muslims who are importing harm. I am not targeting “Islam”.
What am I missing, in your view?
It is certainly the case that those who are hostile to Islam are rewriting history–i wll not call them victors.It is no victory to distort the truth. POVS from historical reconsrtruction have taken a vertignenous shift since the new theocracy of Israel was established by casting evicted Palestinians into a diaspora and proclaiming “a land without a people for a people without a land.” Now that is the kind of history someone like Adam seems to appreciate.
For me the politics of convenient hostilirty are not sufficient. And the back lash against my religion is only one small lash in a growing hostility to religion in general.
IMO, irrespective of the strengths of any socio-cultural organization, there are correspondent weaknesses…religions offer far more hope and actual transcendence than most organizational cultures because they are, if they are of the light-giving ilk, firmly rooted in a transcendence that we in the Abrahamic faiths call G-d, among many loving names of endearment, awe, and celbratory gratitude for the gift of Life. Life as in a life lived with dignity and given meaning.
There are so many amazing beauties and goodnesses that help to strangthen the good that each religion preserves. For all the flaws, which are human flaws, and rooted in human foibles, it mystifies me hopw the intentional hostility to religion is inculcated, as if of all the social systems of struggling humankind, it is supposed to beperfect because it has the touch of G-d on it.
ALl we can do is seek out our ways to strengthen the good in ourselves and for others…i mean all we can do if we are seeking connections that will have goodness and holiness to them. I do not think that there is any one recipe for making a faith journey that is faith-full.
but i do think that the emptiness of so many lives in which the substitute for faith is cynicism and intentional destruction of what others hold to be sacred is a powerful antidote to mob violence against a particular religion, as on this board, and to violence as a way of life, which is what calls many from the boardroom, to the no go zones of Cities and rural outposts of marauders and thugs all around the world. The violence may be physical or it may be the misuse of power and influence to cover up, corrupt , or abuse stakeholders…when it is found among the poor it is castigated and feared, when it is perpetrated by the rich it is too often emulated and held up as clever and laudable.
Most of the crap on this board about Islam is just enmity based and ignorant. You can dress it up but you cannot make it more respectable, less ignoble or less lousy with prejudice.
The reasons various people give are both personal and ideological. But they are without merit and substance. A person’s opinion is more or less valuable depending upon the source, but it is not a fact.
When someone like Mr. Fox claims suddenly that he is an ex-muslim, it seems like a blatant lie. I cannot say it is , but i can say i see no signs whatever pf any familiarity with the strengths or the weaknesses of Islam, but only with hatefueled propaganda.
Yet Mr. Fox, may have many strengths himself, and they just are not engaged when he writes about religion, in particular about my religion.I mean it is hard to write about the strengths of any faith path when the facts are constantly in dispute by people who really and truly want to circulate lies, and some of them are within my faith path. Sometimes you could despair if you did not have in your life much more major struggles and much greater joys and blessings that are inarguable, and so sweet and precious that they transcende the daily slog and the miserable entropic grind of jaded poisoners.
It saddens me that there is such ignorance even about the Saudis, for all the nbekinghted things that our nation ahs recently done, including invading Iraq nd attempting to colonize it, while allowing Afghanistan to fester and Al -quaida and the Taliban to flourish, and fomenting world wide IIslamophobia…it seems to be the cocaine remnants found literally on most of our own USA money represents a trade in blood and death far more horrendously dirty with deciet,. lost lives and blood money than any Arab nation or muslim charity.
why do we not clean our own house first.
this paragraph SHOULD say: ANTECEDENT not antidote
but i do think that the emptiness of so many lives in which the substitute for faith is cynicism and intentional destruction of what others hold to be sacred is a powerful ANTECEDENT to mob violence against a particular religion, as on this board, and to violence as a way of life, which is what calls many from the boardroom, to the no go zones of Cities and rural outposts of marauders and thugs all around the world. The violence may be physical or it may be the misuse of power and influence to cover up, corrupt , or abuse stakeholders…when it is found among the poor it is castigated and feared, when it is perpetrated by the rich it is too often emulated and held up as clever and laudable.
This diagram once again proves the time old saying “The actions of the few dictate the perception of the masses” Come on you can’t punish an entire religion for the actions of a few:S Get a grip America.
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