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	<title>Comments on: Does Religion Cause Bad Behavior? Hitchens Can&#8217;t Decide</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/</link>
	<description>A Voice for Tikkun Olam (healing the world)</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Victoria</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13835</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13835</guid>
		<description>For an alternate view on the relationship of religion to violence may I recommend an article describing the universal aspects of the sacralization of violence  contained in the online &quot;Journal of Religion, Conflict and Peace.&quot;  The article may be accessed at:    http://www.religionconflictpeace.org/node/13</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For an alternate view on the relationship of religion to violence may I recommend an article describing the universal aspects of the sacralization of violence  contained in the online &#8220;Journal of Religion, Conflict and Peace.&#8221;  The article may be accessed at:    <a href="http://www.religionconflictpeace.org/node/13" rel="nofollow">http://www.religionconflictpeace.org/node/13</a></p>
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		<title>By: sam scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13725</link>
		<dc:creator>sam scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13725</guid>
		<description>Liberal Art
 
The Goodies generate The Weasels.
Good behavior provokes Bad.
Prohibition:  stimulus package
for boot leggings &amp; so it goes:
best of human intentions not
with standing &quot;without
contraries is no
Progress.&quot;
 
There&#039;s  a GAP between what I know,
am  aware of - luxury in which I live,
for example and have been raised. on
the one hand, and the misery heard
round the whirl, massive men leading
lives of quite desperate desperation. .
 
Ongoing disgruntlement: dissatisfied,
uneasy:  full of vague desire &amp; arbitrarily
assigned direct objects, sitting and
ruminating to come  to terms with
ongoing dissatisfaction &amp;  spinach  
when I  know there are starving
children in India &amp; China &amp; Africa,
soldiers dying in the middle east, hard
times on farm &amp; bayou and how come
(I&#039;m just asking) there is a gap, gape,
chasm, chaos between what I know &amp;
how I feel &amp; a lack of correlation between
the  sufficient and the sustainable? Having
it and not having IT?
 
Just describing here.
Not a condemnation.
Wonder full is all.
Awesome the  stunning
disconnect between affect
&amp; intellect. I turn it up so
the two don&#039;t conflate,
collapse &amp;  confuse or
I&#039;ll never know how
it is they relate.
 
Why doesn&#039;t what I know effect  affect so
that I feel comfortable in my own skin
when I re-mind myself  about  3rd world
countries, the stoning of fenale adulterers
and folks worse off make me feel grateful for
what I have and chip away at least on some
thing like self-absorbed worry, anxiety,
envy, resentment, yearning for I  know
not what so as to make me feel better
about myself and my self steam. .   
 
Jog
Lift weights.
Practice Yoga.
Journaling
Watch what I eat
Binge and purge.
Cut myself. Keep up
with foreign affairs. Help
someone worse off Manage
time management better. Get
proper diagnosis &amp; prescription
drugs for restless legs, attention
deficiency &amp; multi-tasking hyper
activity: Ways of Knowing that aim
to effect, regulate, govern  Ways of Feeling.  .
 
Sampling: Mel Gibson and Tiger Woods and
John Edwards and Larry King and Mark Sanford
and Jesse James are models for me, inspiring  me
to wonder with uncanny  appreciation  about  the
gap between Knowing (of  which I have much
invested) and  Feeling (of which  I have no control)
and I am stunned by the lack of  correlation between
being Loaded  and Successful, the world on a string
sitting on a rainbow and yet can&#039;t get no satisfaction
no no no so as to be wooking a wub in
alla wong paces.  

&quot;The heart has reasons that reasons know not.&quot;
An old conundrum, riddle, perplexity, Gordian
Naught,  double bind, Chinese finger trap, rock
&amp; hard place, devil and deep blue see.
 
How I  feel on the one hand.
What I know on the other.
And why  can&#039;t they
just get along?
 
What good is knowing better if don&#039;t make
feeling feel better seeing as feeling good is
what counts,  damnit - not much good can
be said for not feeling good &amp; any one can
listen to radio songs and learn that free. .
 
I want to know why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberal Art</p>
<p>The Goodies generate The Weasels.<br />
Good behavior provokes Bad.<br />
Prohibition:  stimulus package<br />
for boot leggings &amp; so it goes:<br />
best of human intentions not<br />
with standing &#8220;without<br />
contraries is no<br />
Progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s  a GAP between what I know,<br />
am  aware of &#8211; luxury in which I live,<br />
for example and have been raised. on<br />
the one hand, and the misery heard<br />
round the whirl, massive men leading<br />
lives of quite desperate desperation. .</p>
<p>Ongoing disgruntlement: dissatisfied,<br />
uneasy:  full of vague desire &amp; arbitrarily<br />
assigned direct objects, sitting and<br />
ruminating to come  to terms with<br />
ongoing dissatisfaction &amp;  spinach<br />
when I  know there are starving<br />
children in India &amp; China &amp; Africa,<br />
soldiers dying in the middle east, hard<br />
times on farm &amp; bayou and how come<br />
(I&#8217;m just asking) there is a gap, gape,<br />
chasm, chaos between what I know &amp;<br />
how I feel &amp; a lack of correlation between<br />
the  sufficient and the sustainable? Having<br />
it and not having IT?</p>
<p>Just describing here.<br />
Not a condemnation.<br />
Wonder full is all.<br />
Awesome the  stunning<br />
disconnect between affect<br />
&amp; intellect. I turn it up so<br />
the two don&#8217;t conflate,<br />
collapse &amp;  confuse or<br />
I&#8217;ll never know how<br />
it is they relate.</p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t what I know effect  affect so<br />
that I feel comfortable in my own skin<br />
when I re-mind myself  about  3rd world<br />
countries, the stoning of fenale adulterers<br />
and folks worse off make me feel grateful for<br />
what I have and chip away at least on some<br />
thing like self-absorbed worry, anxiety,<br />
envy, resentment, yearning for I  know<br />
not what so as to make me feel better<br />
about myself and my self steam. .   </p>
<p>Jog<br />
Lift weights.<br />
Practice Yoga.<br />
Journaling<br />
Watch what I eat<br />
Binge and purge.<br />
Cut myself. Keep up<br />
with foreign affairs. Help<br />
someone worse off Manage<br />
time management better. Get<br />
proper diagnosis &amp; prescription<br />
drugs for restless legs, attention<br />
deficiency &amp; multi-tasking hyper<br />
activity: Ways of Knowing that aim<br />
to effect, regulate, govern  Ways of Feeling.  .</p>
<p>Sampling: Mel Gibson and Tiger Woods and<br />
John Edwards and Larry King and Mark Sanford<br />
and Jesse James are models for me, inspiring  me<br />
to wonder with uncanny  appreciation  about  the<br />
gap between Knowing (of  which I have much<br />
invested) and  Feeling (of which  I have no control)<br />
and I am stunned by the lack of  correlation between<br />
being Loaded  and Successful, the world on a string<br />
sitting on a rainbow and yet can&#8217;t get no satisfaction<br />
no no no so as to be wooking a wub in<br />
alla wong paces.  </p>
<p>&#8220;The heart has reasons that reasons know not.&#8221;<br />
An old conundrum, riddle, perplexity, Gordian<br />
Naught,  double bind, Chinese finger trap, rock<br />
&amp; hard place, devil and deep blue see.</p>
<p>How I  feel on the one hand.<br />
What I know on the other.<br />
And why  can&#8217;t they<br />
just get along?</p>
<p>What good is knowing better if don&#8217;t make<br />
feeling feel better seeing as feeling good is<br />
what counts,  damnit &#8211; not much good can<br />
be said for not feeling good &amp; any one can<br />
listen to radio songs and learn that free. .</p>
<p>I want to know why.</p>
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		<title>By: sam scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13602</link>
		<dc:creator>sam scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13602</guid>
		<description>Dear Red Heifer,

Manners of speaking, so to speak. And the more the better if 
not always the merrier.  We fight over our Ways of Speaking, yes?
Map wars.  Representational territorial pissings.

BE scolds me for not making my self clear--as if clarity were
a virtue when we all know how reductive it is. My students
remind me: it&#039;s not black &amp; white, Sam (But of course it IS)
It&#039;s always grades of gray (But of course, that too)

Bad behavior?  Our clarity addiction. Or logic &amp; rationality dependence
and habit--in a whirl that transcends human explanation and 
reasons why thank you very much. 

Never the less.

You say tomato. I say tomahato.
Some one else says love apples.
And poisonous.

Bad behavior all around: human, all too human. 
It&#039;s the GOODIES that generate it, true?.
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Red Heifer,</p>
<p>Manners of speaking, so to speak. And the more the better if<br />
not always the merrier.  We fight over our Ways of Speaking, yes?<br />
Map wars.  Representational territorial pissings.</p>
<p>BE scolds me for not making my self clear&#8211;as if clarity were<br />
a virtue when we all know how reductive it is. My students<br />
remind me: it&#8217;s not black &amp; white, Sam (But of course it IS)<br />
It&#8217;s always grades of gray (But of course, that too)</p>
<p>Bad behavior?  Our clarity addiction. Or logic &amp; rationality dependence<br />
and habit&#8211;in a whirl that transcends human explanation and<br />
reasons why thank you very much. </p>
<p>Never the less.</p>
<p>You say tomato. I say tomahato.<br />
Some one else says love apples.<br />
And poisonous.</p>
<p>Bad behavior all around: human, all too human.<br />
It&#8217;s the GOODIES that generate it, true?.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: Bright Daystar</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13548</link>
		<dc:creator>Bright Daystar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13548</guid>
		<description>Yes.  The entire planet was infected with dis-ease when the story of a black man uncovering his father became accepted as a true event.  This is but a tip of the iceberg(White Mountain in the Flames of the East, the House Destroyed of God)

King James Bible was translated from scrolls written in 1688BC or thereabouts.  The story  in the 1688BC scrolls has nothing to do with a black man.  It is the emerging of the black fertile highland that was humiliated (Canaan) under the violent waters of creation.  This black soil emerged in the Expansion (Japeth) of a Hot (Ham) House for the resting (Noah)place of the conspicous position (name) of the  black soil.  The place where the Curse was Reversed (Mt. Ararat).

The Warmth of Mating was sent out(Dove) to see if there was yet any resting place for the seed coming across (hebrews) in the waters of creation.  Was the black fertile soil ready to bring forth life.

There was no destruction of human in that flood of Rest(Noah).  

Now I ask you has the world been behaving badly? 
 Why has the world behaved badly?  
Where is the source of that bad behavior?
When will WE stop passing Hearing(Simeon) Attached(Levi) to a bad report?

Bright
Just Another Cherokee Red Heifer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  The entire planet was infected with dis-ease when the story of a black man uncovering his father became accepted as a true event.  This is but a tip of the iceberg(White Mountain in the Flames of the East, the House Destroyed of God)</p>
<p>King James Bible was translated from scrolls written in 1688BC or thereabouts.  The story  in the 1688BC scrolls has nothing to do with a black man.  It is the emerging of the black fertile highland that was humiliated (Canaan) under the violent waters of creation.  This black soil emerged in the Expansion (Japeth) of a Hot (Ham) House for the resting (Noah)place of the conspicous position (name) of the  black soil.  The place where the Curse was Reversed (Mt. Ararat).</p>
<p>The Warmth of Mating was sent out(Dove) to see if there was yet any resting place for the seed coming across (hebrews) in the waters of creation.  Was the black fertile soil ready to bring forth life.</p>
<p>There was no destruction of human in that flood of Rest(Noah).  </p>
<p>Now I ask you has the world been behaving badly?<br />
 Why has the world behaved badly?<br />
Where is the source of that bad behavior?<br />
When will WE stop passing Hearing(Simeon) Attached(Levi) to a bad report?</p>
<p>Bright<br />
Just Another Cherokee Red Heifer</p>
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		<title>By: sam scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13513</link>
		<dc:creator>sam scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13513</guid>
		<description>Do guns cause bad behavior?

Anthropologically, Gregory Bateson claims magic and superstition is 
a corruption of religion--not the other way around as some argue.

The distinction is worth play.

In Angels Fear: Toward an Episemology of the Sacred, Bateson describes
the (stereotypical?) ritual of the Rain Dance by western native Americans.  

To the degee that the dance intends to put the dancers and community
in tune with the whole (often called &quot;nature&quot; or, say, Great Spirit)
then it can be described as RELIGIOUS.

And maybe &quot;good&quot; behavior.

To the degree that the dance as some instrumentally purposive aim to 
rain-down-on-us-&amp;-grow-our-crops, then Bateson wouild characterize
the dance as magic, superstision--and &quot;bad&quot; behavior as far as getting 
in tune with the Whole and Holy might be concerned.  (&quot;religion&quot;:)

Interesting distinction between behavior aimed at coming into accord
with a WHOLE, and behavior aimed at gaining it&#039;s own aims
purpose and terms of desire.  (&quot;magic.&quot; &quot;superstition&quot;)

Good behavior/Bad bahavior,
Good dog/Bad dog. :
 
It&#039;s a part and parts to WHOLE problem  (the difference &amp; the relationship.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do guns cause bad behavior?</p>
<p>Anthropologically, Gregory Bateson claims magic and superstition is<br />
a corruption of religion&#8211;not the other way around as some argue.</p>
<p>The distinction is worth play.</p>
<p>In Angels Fear: Toward an Episemology of the Sacred, Bateson describes<br />
the (stereotypical?) ritual of the Rain Dance by western native Americans.  </p>
<p>To the degee that the dance intends to put the dancers and community<br />
in tune with the whole (often called &#8220;nature&#8221; or, say, Great Spirit)<br />
then it can be described as RELIGIOUS.</p>
<p>And maybe &#8220;good&#8221; behavior.</p>
<p>To the degree that the dance as some instrumentally purposive aim to<br />
rain-down-on-us-&amp;-grow-our-crops, then Bateson wouild characterize<br />
the dance as magic, superstision&#8211;and &#8220;bad&#8221; behavior as far as getting<br />
in tune with the Whole and Holy might be concerned.  (&#8220;religion&#8221;:)</p>
<p>Interesting distinction between behavior aimed at coming into accord<br />
with a WHOLE, and behavior aimed at gaining it&#8217;s own aims<br />
purpose and terms of desire.  (&#8220;magic.&#8221; &#8220;superstition&#8221;)</p>
<p>Good behavior/Bad bahavior,<br />
Good dog/Bad dog. :</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a part and parts to WHOLE problem  (the difference &amp; the relationship.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13485</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13485</guid>
		<description>I believe religion should be viewed as an anthropological and evolutionary phenomenon. It represents to some extent the &quot;lowest common denominator&quot; of understanding re the &quot;mysteries&quot; of life. When we study the cultures of the tribal groups that have historically existed, and continue to exist, in what we generally regard as &quot;primitive&quot; societies, we do not necessarily connect them with ethical. philosophical, or &quot;theological&quot; norms but understand that they have evolved and represent the collective worldview of those particular groups - influenced as they are by their environment, history and yes, superstitions. Seen in this light, the story of Abraham and Isaac becomes a story or myth that people told which conveyed the truth that their esteemed forebear came to the realization that human sacrifice was wrong, or at least not necessary. In their system of beliefs, this was ascribed to their god(s), though in a different culture it might conceivably be attributed to an understanding and appreciation of a higher potential for the species. We have modern examples of each kind of thinking - conservative religious groups have &quot;revelations&quot; that justify and even require changes in specific beliefs about racial qualifications for membership in some privileged group, while more liberal ones conclude that racial equality is necessary for consistency with their stated principles.

In either case, groups and their leaders eventually settle on decisions that are most in agreement (or less dissonant) with their evolving belief systems. As &quot;enlightened&quot; people, we tend to minimize the extent to which our ancestors were similar to other &quot;primitive&quot; groups. The Abrahamic tribes believed strongly in sacrificial offerings to appease the gods. The fact that they believed in multiple gods is attested to by the first of the ten commandments: &quot;Thou shalt have no other gods before me.&quot; One can certainly find much evidence of magical and superstitious beliefs in our own society (whether of specifically religious origin or not). The elevated place of books like the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, or the Bhagavad Gita is due to the collective and cumulative respect people ascribe to them. They are cultural records or archives of prevalent myths and &quot;holy&quot; writings and stories which the culture has &quot;canonized.&quot; I agree with those who have observed that all theological and philosophical propositions and truths are constructs of human thought, analysis, or in some cases ecstatic inspiration. 

Such constructs can be religious, nationalistic, manic (fear-driven), ecstatic/hedonistic, or combinations of these and other motivating factors. Our nature is that we are susceptible to any and all (and more) such qualities of experience and aspiration. Uprisings and undertakings of all sorts are typified more by their profligate and infinite variability than any possible similarity of ideology or even intensity of feelings. And yet &quot;there is nothing new under the sun&quot; an ancient proverb tells us. The latter statement, found as it is in scripture, is an excellent example of a proposition or &quot;truism&quot; that is simultaneously true (perhaps on several different levels) and false, depending on one&#039;s own frame of reference. The inherent complexities of human thought and feelings are so intricate and so vast in their scope that they essentially defy categorical classification and clarity of understanding. Perhaps that is why there are so many, and yet so few, holy books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe religion should be viewed as an anthropological and evolutionary phenomenon. It represents to some extent the &#8220;lowest common denominator&#8221; of understanding re the &#8220;mysteries&#8221; of life. When we study the cultures of the tribal groups that have historically existed, and continue to exist, in what we generally regard as &#8220;primitive&#8221; societies, we do not necessarily connect them with ethical. philosophical, or &#8220;theological&#8221; norms but understand that they have evolved and represent the collective worldview of those particular groups &#8211; influenced as they are by their environment, history and yes, superstitions. Seen in this light, the story of Abraham and Isaac becomes a story or myth that people told which conveyed the truth that their esteemed forebear came to the realization that human sacrifice was wrong, or at least not necessary. In their system of beliefs, this was ascribed to their god(s), though in a different culture it might conceivably be attributed to an understanding and appreciation of a higher potential for the species. We have modern examples of each kind of thinking &#8211; conservative religious groups have &#8220;revelations&#8221; that justify and even require changes in specific beliefs about racial qualifications for membership in some privileged group, while more liberal ones conclude that racial equality is necessary for consistency with their stated principles.</p>
<p>In either case, groups and their leaders eventually settle on decisions that are most in agreement (or less dissonant) with their evolving belief systems. As &#8220;enlightened&#8221; people, we tend to minimize the extent to which our ancestors were similar to other &#8220;primitive&#8221; groups. The Abrahamic tribes believed strongly in sacrificial offerings to appease the gods. The fact that they believed in multiple gods is attested to by the first of the ten commandments: &#8220;Thou shalt have no other gods before me.&#8221; One can certainly find much evidence of magical and superstitious beliefs in our own society (whether of specifically religious origin or not). The elevated place of books like the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, or the Bhagavad Gita is due to the collective and cumulative respect people ascribe to them. They are cultural records or archives of prevalent myths and &#8220;holy&#8221; writings and stories which the culture has &#8220;canonized.&#8221; I agree with those who have observed that all theological and philosophical propositions and truths are constructs of human thought, analysis, or in some cases ecstatic inspiration. </p>
<p>Such constructs can be religious, nationalistic, manic (fear-driven), ecstatic/hedonistic, or combinations of these and other motivating factors. Our nature is that we are susceptible to any and all (and more) such qualities of experience and aspiration. Uprisings and undertakings of all sorts are typified more by their profligate and infinite variability than any possible similarity of ideology or even intensity of feelings. And yet &#8220;there is nothing new under the sun&#8221; an ancient proverb tells us. The latter statement, found as it is in scripture, is an excellent example of a proposition or &#8220;truism&#8221; that is simultaneously true (perhaps on several different levels) and false, depending on one&#8217;s own frame of reference. The inherent complexities of human thought and feelings are so intricate and so vast in their scope that they essentially defy categorical classification and clarity of understanding. Perhaps that is why there are so many, and yet so few, holy books.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec Dubro</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13476</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec Dubro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13476</guid>
		<description>Neither of the two great ideological destructive forces in the 20th century were Abramhamic. Three if you add Western imperialism. What religion is responsible for the four or five million deaths in Central Africa? How much of American bad behavior -- not just spouting off, but bad acts -- can be traced to religion? 

I choose not to be religious, but claim no greater moral or ethical virtues than religious people. Hitchens can&#039;t seem to accept the duality of human behavior -- both as individuals and as collectives. Religions are what their adherents make of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither of the two great ideological destructive forces in the 20th century were Abramhamic. Three if you add Western imperialism. What religion is responsible for the four or five million deaths in Central Africa? How much of American bad behavior &#8212; not just spouting off, but bad acts &#8212; can be traced to religion? </p>
<p>I choose not to be religious, but claim no greater moral or ethical virtues than religious people. Hitchens can&#8217;t seem to accept the duality of human behavior &#8212; both as individuals and as collectives. Religions are what their adherents make of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Glickman</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13465</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Glickman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13465</guid>
		<description>I agree with Allan Sorenson. Until recently religion has been viewed as a &quot;sacred cow.&quot; 

During the early 1970s I lived for a year in Sarajevo, Yugoslavia, as it was known then. From that year, I have four stories to report:

1. We befriended a Muslim who had received his doctorate in linguistics from the University of Michigan before returning to his home city. Needless to say, he was fluent in English. We went for a walk with him outside of Sarajevo, and came upon a wood hut. I said to him, &quot;This might have been where Joseph and Mary went.&quot; He replied, &quot;Joseph and Mary who?&quot;

2. This same fellow told us that, as far as he was concerned, religion was the worst thing that happened to what would become Yugoslavia; it was responsible for much of the hostility between the Yugoslav peoples. (Long afterwards, in the 1990s, we this hostility rise again and play itself out once again.)

3. A woman whose father had been the leader of the Serbian Orthodox community in Sarajevo told me that &quot;religion isn&#039;t important nowadays.&quot; I could see this documented every day in the death notices which appeared in the daily papers. Most of them were accompanied by (communist) stars, rather than by religious symbols, although the latter were seen every once in a while, too.

4. A woman told me in joking fashion that &quot;nowadays, we don&#039;t say &#039;Thank God&#039;; we say &quot;Thank Marx.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Allan Sorenson. Until recently religion has been viewed as a &#8220;sacred cow.&#8221; </p>
<p>During the early 1970s I lived for a year in Sarajevo, Yugoslavia, as it was known then. From that year, I have four stories to report:</p>
<p>1. We befriended a Muslim who had received his doctorate in linguistics from the University of Michigan before returning to his home city. Needless to say, he was fluent in English. We went for a walk with him outside of Sarajevo, and came upon a wood hut. I said to him, &#8220;This might have been where Joseph and Mary went.&#8221; He replied, &#8220;Joseph and Mary who?&#8221;</p>
<p>2. This same fellow told us that, as far as he was concerned, religion was the worst thing that happened to what would become Yugoslavia; it was responsible for much of the hostility between the Yugoslav peoples. (Long afterwards, in the 1990s, we this hostility rise again and play itself out once again.)</p>
<p>3. A woman whose father had been the leader of the Serbian Orthodox community in Sarajevo told me that &#8220;religion isn&#8217;t important nowadays.&#8221; I could see this documented every day in the death notices which appeared in the daily papers. Most of them were accompanied by (communist) stars, rather than by religious symbols, although the latter were seen every once in a while, too.</p>
<p>4. A woman told me in joking fashion that &#8220;nowadays, we don&#8217;t say &#8216;Thank God&#8217;; we say &#8220;Thank Marx.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sam scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13439</link>
		<dc:creator>sam scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13439</guid>
		<description>Dear BE,

Excellent Cartography of the Flat World.

Anti-Religionists (not that there&#039;s anything wrong with that: turn it up; put it in play)
such asChristopher Hitchens et al are  like kids who figure out there&#039;s no Santa Clause.

Pissed.  As if duped, damnit--and now full of righteous anger at the pervasive myth
hulking over the species like some sphinx,  Smart, too--brilliant, rational, logical
like reducing some dream to common sense. Like going into the closet with a
flashlight&amp; lucid schemes to expose darkness.

&quot;Who&#039;s afraid of the dark?
Do you see any round here?

Like a Freddy Flatlander lecturin on Sally Sphere in terms of circles and circle jerks
Eureka. 

LIKE, I said.  Loose analogic. Don&#039;t expect logic from me on these matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear BE,</p>
<p>Excellent Cartography of the Flat World.</p>
<p>Anti-Religionists (not that there&#8217;s anything wrong with that: turn it up; put it in play)<br />
such asChristopher Hitchens et al are  like kids who figure out there&#8217;s no Santa Clause.</p>
<p>Pissed.  As if duped, damnit&#8211;and now full of righteous anger at the pervasive myth<br />
hulking over the species like some sphinx,  Smart, too&#8211;brilliant, rational, logical<br />
like reducing some dream to common sense. Like going into the closet with a<br />
flashlight&amp; lucid schemes to expose darkness.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who&#8217;s afraid of the dark?<br />
Do you see any round here?</p>
<p>Like a Freddy Flatlander lecturin on Sally Sphere in terms of circles and circle jerks<br />
Eureka. </p>
<p>LIKE, I said.  Loose analogic. Don&#8217;t expect logic from me on these matters.</p>
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		<title>By: sam scoville</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/07/19/does-religion-cause-bad-behavior-hitchens-cant-decide/comment-page-1/#comment-13438</link>
		<dc:creator>sam scoville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=14166#comment-13438</guid>
		<description>These ongoing smart athiest/ naieve thetic/stupid religionist thread sounds
something like the old man reading Winnie the Pooh to the childern, and yet
round and round the mull berry bush rationalists among the munchkins argue
over whether bears can talk for crying out loud, some of them with brilliance-
some not so much.

Many pissed off at the disturbance getting sucked in to the controversy.

And then some just listening, delighting in Christopher Robbin,
holy smokes &amp; mirrors, they say, with unpostponed joy.
Far Out. .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These ongoing smart athiest/ naieve thetic/stupid religionist thread sounds<br />
something like the old man reading Winnie the Pooh to the childern, and yet<br />
round and round the mull berry bush rationalists among the munchkins argue<br />
over whether bears can talk for crying out loud, some of them with brilliance-<br />
some not so much.</p>
<p>Many pissed off at the disturbance getting sucked in to the controversy.</p>
<p>And then some just listening, delighting in Christopher Robbin,<br />
holy smokes &amp; mirrors, they say, with unpostponed joy.<br />
Far Out. .</p>
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