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	<title>Comments on: Pursuing Personal And Structural Transformation Simultaneously</title>
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	<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/</link>
	<description>A Voice for Tikkun Olam (healing the world)</description>
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		<title>By: SystemsThinker</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-10706</link>
		<dc:creator>SystemsThinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 02:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-10706</guid>
		<description>Another way to put this is in terms of emergent properties. Emergent properties are aspects of a system that are not found when we zoom in to the parts that make up that system. In other words, wholes are more than the sum of their parts. What this means is that there are certain things in a social system that cannot be remedied by simply working on the parts of the system, despite the illusion of the logic that they can. They can only be addressed by working on the structure in which these parts relate or at the level of the whole.

Therefore lasting change does require addressing both the parts and the structure of the whole.

I&#039;m not sure I agree, though, with the idea that the means determine the end. Can a difficulty and violent birth process not create a peace-loving child? Surely it happens all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another way to put this is in terms of emergent properties. Emergent properties are aspects of a system that are not found when we zoom in to the parts that make up that system. In other words, wholes are more than the sum of their parts. What this means is that there are certain things in a social system that cannot be remedied by simply working on the parts of the system, despite the illusion of the logic that they can. They can only be addressed by working on the structure in which these parts relate or at the level of the whole.</p>
<p>Therefore lasting change does require addressing both the parts and the structure of the whole.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I agree, though, with the idea that the means determine the end. Can a difficulty and violent birth process not create a peace-loving child? Surely it happens all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Belden</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-8800</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Belden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-8800</guid>
		<description>Terrie, You&#039;ve captured the issue perfectly. I am wondering if one way forward in your group might be to suggest a session in which the activists write down all the places where they think personal transformation broadly understood, is helpful to them as activists, has kept them going in hard times perhaps, or enabled them to work with difficult activist colleagues, or has been important in activist history; and for the personal transformation types to list all the laws and structures of society that they value and are glad exist, and then explain how they think they came about. Another approach is for each side to try in the most genuine and empathic way to describe what the other side thinks, how their world view works. It could be that each side feels underappreciated by the other, and some genuine understanding might open up each side to learn from the other. Have you tried exercises of that kind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrie, You&#8217;ve captured the issue perfectly. I am wondering if one way forward in your group might be to suggest a session in which the activists write down all the places where they think personal transformation broadly understood, is helpful to them as activists, has kept them going in hard times perhaps, or enabled them to work with difficult activist colleagues, or has been important in activist history; and for the personal transformation types to list all the laws and structures of society that they value and are glad exist, and then explain how they think they came about. Another approach is for each side to try in the most genuine and empathic way to describe what the other side thinks, how their world view works. It could be that each side feels underappreciated by the other, and some genuine understanding might open up each side to learn from the other. Have you tried exercises of that kind?</p>
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		<title>By: Terrie</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-8796</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-8796</guid>
		<description>Very interesting.  I am involved in a Progressive discussion group where there is a constant tension between the activists and the personal transformation types.  As one of the former, I call the latter the &quot;woo-woos&quot;  Probabaly you are right, but its hard to know how to deal with someone who says, with all sincerity, that the best way to change the world would be for everyone to hold hands and chant &quot;om.&quot;  The only way to change the world, they say, is by changing consciousness.  I get frustrated because it seems like a lot of navel-gazing and that they don&#039;t actually DO anything.  They pull back from me because they believe by focusing on the problems of the world, I am drawing negative energy toward myself.  I say I want to fix the problems, so I also must identify them.  Around and around we go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting.  I am involved in a Progressive discussion group where there is a constant tension between the activists and the personal transformation types.  As one of the former, I call the latter the &#8220;woo-woos&#8221;  Probabaly you are right, but its hard to know how to deal with someone who says, with all sincerity, that the best way to change the world would be for everyone to hold hands and chant &#8220;om.&#8221;  The only way to change the world, they say, is by changing consciousness.  I get frustrated because it seems like a lot of navel-gazing and that they don&#8217;t actually DO anything.  They pull back from me because they believe by focusing on the problems of the world, I am drawing negative energy toward myself.  I say I want to fix the problems, so I also must identify them.  Around and around we go.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Belden</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-8787</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Belden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-8787</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jack. Your response buoys me up, because I know you are in the thick of doing this work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jack. Your response buoys me up, because I know you are in the thick of doing this work.</p>
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		<title>By: JustJack</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-8760</link>
		<dc:creator>JustJack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-8760</guid>
		<description>Awesome post, Dave! I also very much enjoyed the initial link to that blog, &quot;The Implicit &amp; Experiential Rantings of a Person&quot;. Also a fantastic piece of thinkage.

I&#039;m finding that most things in life are both/and rather than the either/or I was conditioned to take the world in when I was a kid. I struggle with the same things, especially since my class position in this mess-of-a-society affords me a very very small canvas despite the fact that I know internally I could use a much bigger one. The class barriers in the U.S. are simply monstrous and as much as I&#039;ve tried to climb over them, dig under them or go around them, they&#039;re pretty much a limiting obstacle I&#039;m unable to get past unless I win the lottery or something. So I&#039;m focused on the canvas I do have as much as the lack of a proper sized one vexes and/or depresses me. 

Locally, I help out the city political candidate and issue campaigns I can dig into. I participate in creative projects and progressive education efforts in my kids&#039; schools. I walk my talk as best I can and try to keep talking enough to get others to do the same. 

At 43, I&#039;m realizing my dreams/visions of various &quot;big canvas&quot; projects like trying to help my friends who happen to have come from Pine Ridge, Santa Ynez and the like by creating a N-P project to build sustainable, indigenously/culturally appropriate housing/water/energy infrastructure on reservations, or going into other countries where neo-liberalism is clobbering local folks to give them total control over their own infrastructure (and defending it against any powers-that-be who want to prevent that), etc.--they won&#039;t likely happen, at least not by me. I can only work in my local watershed and do what I can to subvert, resist and foster the ideas of empowering us little folks in terms of participatory democracy, consensus, NVC, etc. (although I am still looking for more training in NVC at a cost I can actually pay--the empathy thing Miki&#039;s always talking about is still just too conceptual for me).  Anyway, great stuff, man!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome post, Dave! I also very much enjoyed the initial link to that blog, &#8220;The Implicit &amp; Experiential Rantings of a Person&#8221;. Also a fantastic piece of thinkage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m finding that most things in life are both/and rather than the either/or I was conditioned to take the world in when I was a kid. I struggle with the same things, especially since my class position in this mess-of-a-society affords me a very very small canvas despite the fact that I know internally I could use a much bigger one. The class barriers in the U.S. are simply monstrous and as much as I&#8217;ve tried to climb over them, dig under them or go around them, they&#8217;re pretty much a limiting obstacle I&#8217;m unable to get past unless I win the lottery or something. So I&#8217;m focused on the canvas I do have as much as the lack of a proper sized one vexes and/or depresses me. </p>
<p>Locally, I help out the city political candidate and issue campaigns I can dig into. I participate in creative projects and progressive education efforts in my kids&#8217; schools. I walk my talk as best I can and try to keep talking enough to get others to do the same. </p>
<p>At 43, I&#8217;m realizing my dreams/visions of various &#8220;big canvas&#8221; projects like trying to help my friends who happen to have come from Pine Ridge, Santa Ynez and the like by creating a N-P project to build sustainable, indigenously/culturally appropriate housing/water/energy infrastructure on reservations, or going into other countries where neo-liberalism is clobbering local folks to give them total control over their own infrastructure (and defending it against any powers-that-be who want to prevent that), etc.&#8211;they won&#8217;t likely happen, at least not by me. I can only work in my local watershed and do what I can to subvert, resist and foster the ideas of empowering us little folks in terms of participatory democracy, consensus, NVC, etc. (although I am still looking for more training in NVC at a cost I can actually pay&#8211;the empathy thing Miki&#8217;s always talking about is still just too conceptual for me).  Anyway, great stuff, man!</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/27/pursuing-personal-and-structural-transformation-simultaneously/comment-page-1/#comment-8754</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=12373#comment-8754</guid>
		<description>What we most need is a religious revival. Is there anything on the horizon that might be adequate? In terms of ideas, it has been around for a long time. We have enough ethical solutions in our heritage that inform us; e.g., the so-called Golden Rule is a universal affirmation.

I share your grandfather&#039;s pacifism. I saw it work in the civil rights struggle. People then were willing to be beaten up and jailed unjustly rather than either accept domination or respond in kind. But such saintliness is rare and soon gave way to ambition. When I once shared publicly my personal transformation after meeting MLK for the first time, one of my companions disclosed that he was part of the violence in Memphis prior to MLK&#039;s assassination. We were both in a rehab program at the time; different routes to the same condition.

I share your father&#039;s unbelief in saintliness as a survival strategy. The 60s &quot;Drop out and turn on&quot; was a path of saintliness that failed. It left the public realm to the exploiters. The vote that put Nixon in the presidency has had repercussions we continue to suffer from. I worked hard in my community for the poverty program only to see it totally dismantled by Cheney under Nixon&#039;s direction. They did not want to see government funds used to promote progressive (i.e., Democratic Party) programs.

The only alternative is education, and it has survived until now because of the misconception that education leads to a better income. With all the college grads either unemployed or flipping burgers, the disillusion in education has begun to set in. As our public education system unravels, we sink deeper into vicious self-seeking.

This is a critical moment. We need a religious revival. All that is developing is the futile pursuit of churches promoting the prosperity gospel or rapture. We have lost all vision of a future of peace and justice. Where is John the Baptist when we need him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we most need is a religious revival. Is there anything on the horizon that might be adequate? In terms of ideas, it has been around for a long time. We have enough ethical solutions in our heritage that inform us; e.g., the so-called Golden Rule is a universal affirmation.</p>
<p>I share your grandfather&#8217;s pacifism. I saw it work in the civil rights struggle. People then were willing to be beaten up and jailed unjustly rather than either accept domination or respond in kind. But such saintliness is rare and soon gave way to ambition. When I once shared publicly my personal transformation after meeting MLK for the first time, one of my companions disclosed that he was part of the violence in Memphis prior to MLK&#8217;s assassination. We were both in a rehab program at the time; different routes to the same condition.</p>
<p>I share your father&#8217;s unbelief in saintliness as a survival strategy. The 60s &#8220;Drop out and turn on&#8221; was a path of saintliness that failed. It left the public realm to the exploiters. The vote that put Nixon in the presidency has had repercussions we continue to suffer from. I worked hard in my community for the poverty program only to see it totally dismantled by Cheney under Nixon&#8217;s direction. They did not want to see government funds used to promote progressive (i.e., Democratic Party) programs.</p>
<p>The only alternative is education, and it has survived until now because of the misconception that education leads to a better income. With all the college grads either unemployed or flipping burgers, the disillusion in education has begun to set in. As our public education system unravels, we sink deeper into vicious self-seeking.</p>
<p>This is a critical moment. We need a religious revival. All that is developing is the futile pursuit of churches promoting the prosperity gospel or rapture. We have lost all vision of a future of peace and justice. Where is John the Baptist when we need him?</p>
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