Comments on: Permaculture and Paganism, an Interview with Starhawk (1) http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/ A Voice for Tikkun Olam (healing the world) Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:04:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Paul http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-16802 Paul Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:05:36 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-16802 It seems the difficulty with neo-paganism is that it involves worshiping/revering nature. What, you are moved to ask, is wrong with that? My answer: What is wrong with nature-worship is that we should only worship (be absolutely deferential to) that which is absolutely good. But nature is clearly not absolutely good; that is to say, it is not perfect. How do I know nature isn't perfect? Answer: First of all, human beings are surely a part of nature, and human beings are not perfect. In fact, too many of us are wicked and cruel. I do not espouse here the Christian notion of Original Sin (though I respect Christianity greatly), rather I point only to the unnecessary suffering humans have often inflicted upon one another, to say nothing of the environmental damage we've done. Secondly, nature often breeds diseases and disasters, which cause even more suffering. Neo-paganism, I must respectfully submit, is surely not the answer for spiritually, ethically sensitive people trying to forge a personal identity. The best value system is ethical monotheism, which, rightly conceived, regards nature as the deliberate creation of a transcendent and just God. Only this God of absolute goodness and perfection should elicit our absolute loyalty and deference. Only this One beyond all things is worthy of being called Divine, it seems to me. Of course this doesn't mean there is not a lot of good in humanity and nature; it just means that neither (currently) is perfect or divine. I'd be interested in reading the thoughts and observations of neo-pagans who have read this argument, as many neo-pagans are fine, upstanding, intelligent people for whom I have nothing but respect. But I think it's a legitimate and healthy discussion to have. It seems the difficulty with neo-paganism is that it involves worshiping/revering nature. What, you are moved to ask, is wrong with that? My answer: What is wrong with nature-worship is that we should only worship (be absolutely deferential to) that which is absolutely good. But nature is clearly not absolutely good; that is to say, it is not perfect. How do I know nature isn’t perfect?

Answer: First of all, human beings are surely a part of nature, and human beings are not perfect. In fact, too many of us are wicked and cruel. I do not espouse here the Christian notion of Original Sin (though I respect Christianity greatly), rather I point only to the unnecessary suffering humans have often inflicted upon one another, to say nothing of the environmental damage we’ve done.

Secondly, nature often breeds diseases and disasters, which cause even more suffering. Neo-paganism, I must respectfully submit, is surely not the answer for spiritually, ethically sensitive people trying to forge a personal identity. The best value system is ethical monotheism, which, rightly conceived, regards nature as the deliberate creation of a transcendent and just God. Only this God of absolute goodness and perfection should elicit our absolute loyalty and deference. Only this One beyond all things is worthy of being called Divine, it seems to me. Of course this doesn’t mean there is not a lot of good in humanity and nature; it just means that neither (currently) is perfect or divine.

I’d be interested in reading the thoughts and observations of neo-pagans who have read this argument, as many neo-pagans are fine, upstanding, intelligent people for whom I have nothing but respect.

But I think it’s a legitimate and healthy discussion to have.

]]> By: david jockusch http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8446 david jockusch Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:27:27 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8446 Permaculture and paganism - YES. Permaculture is so much about learning from the land and flora that are there. Do not break the soil with mechanical means, but re-introduce benefitial diversity. Check out Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution. Mollison calls him the spiritual grandfather of PC. Permaculture and paganism – YES. Permaculture is so much about learning from the land and flora that are there. Do not break the soil with mechanical means, but re-introduce benefitial diversity.
Check out Fukuoka, One Straw Revolution. Mollison calls him the spiritual grandfather of PC.

]]> By: Nancy Vedder-Shults http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8434 Nancy Vedder-Shults Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:58:43 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8434 Thanks, Elissa. Thanks, Elissa.

]]> By: Elissa Small http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8433 Elissa Small Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:28:45 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8433 Hello! Thought I'd mention a great how-to book on permaculture: "Edible Forest Gardening". Who knew you should make sure your garden spiders need ample access to drinking water? Hello! Thought I’d mention a great how-to book on permaculture: “Edible Forest Gardening”. Who knew you should make sure your garden spiders need ample access to drinking water?

]]> By: Nancy Vedder-Shults http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8256 Nancy Vedder-Shults Thu, 15 Apr 2010 01:59:37 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8256 Gary, thanks for the URLs. Rosemary Morrow looks like she's doing good work, just like Starhawk. Virginia, I agree that everything exists in relationship, and we need to shift our focus in this culture from so much individualism and competition to seeing that reality of life. I actually wrote a blog post about just that a few months back. It's at http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/07/31/individualism-wont-get-us-there/. Gary, thanks for the URLs. Rosemary Morrow looks like she’s doing good work, just like Starhawk.

Virginia, I agree that everything exists in relationship, and we need to shift our focus in this culture from so much individualism and competition to seeing that reality of life. I actually wrote a blog post about just that a few months back. It’s at http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/07/31/individualism-wont-get-us-there/.

]]> By: virginia http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8248 virginia Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:57:21 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8248 this is so good! it's all about relationships--everything exists in relationship! nothing exists in isolation, yet we act as if all does. i support this work, & am grateful to receive these wise words from a very wise lady! will look forward to more! this is so good! it’s all about relationships–everything exists in relationship! nothing exists in isolation, yet we act as if all does. i support this work, & am grateful to receive these wise words from a very wise lady! will look forward to more!

]]> By: Gary Caganoff http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2010/04/06/permaculture-and-paganism-an-interview-with-starhawk-1/comment-page-1/#comment-8069 Gary Caganoff Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:22:12 +0000 http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=11971#comment-8069 Thanks Nancy. Looking forward to some more words from Starhawk. I'm a permaculturalist and have a couple of videos on Rosemary Morrow implementing permaculture from her own back yard to Afghanistan. You can check them out: http://www.retrofittingyourhome.com http://www.thegardenattheendoftheworld.info cheers, Gary Thanks Nancy. Looking forward to some more words from Starhawk. I’m a permaculturalist and have a couple of videos on Rosemary Morrow implementing permaculture from her own back yard to Afghanistan. You can check them out:

http://www.retrofittingyourhome.com
http://www.thegardenattheendoftheworld.info

cheers,
Gary

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