Why Is Liberal Religion So Race And Class Bound? Can Love Break Through?
by: Dave Belden on March 12th, 2010 | 23 Comments »

Above: The Revs. Rosemary Bray McNatt and Charles Ortman listen to questions posed to them by students during the workshop "Whose Job Is It Anyway? The Ministry of Antiracism, Anti-oppression and Multiculturalism."
The Census Bureau projects that by 2042, whites will no longer constitute a majority of the U.S. population… the fastest growing group will be those who identify as multiracial…. If we fail to respond to this new multicultural reality – if we choose to stand rather than to move – we will not only fail to honor this core principle of liberal theology, we will simply become irrelevant.
This is from the lead article in the current Unitarian Universalist magazine, UU World.
Being good liberals, Unitarian Universalists have been engaged in wrenching self-examination for several years now, at least since the 1992 General Assembly Resolution on Racial and Cultural Diversity.
But the demographics show UUs are as white as they ever were. In a follow up article, well known UU minister Rosemary Bray McNatt writes:
My sons are third-generation Unitarian Universalists. After his beautiful and moving Coming of Age ceremony at our congregation, my older son, Allen, asked me whether I would be offended if he joined another religion when he grew up. Now, as his mother, I couldn’t possibly be offended. My husband Bob and I have raised our children to know that they must find their own way, even as we have been clear about what path we follow as Unitarian Universalists. We want him to feel free to be the spiritual seeker he has been raised to be. On the other hand, as a Unitarian Universalist minister, I was internally screaming, “YES, I’m offended! Just what do you think I’ve been doing around here?”
When I asked him why he thought it would be better to be a different religion, he said, “It’s not that I don’t like being a UU. I am just tired of being the only black kid in the youth group, and the only black kid at camp, and the only black kid everywhere.” He loves our faith, but he is lonely.
Of course there are any number of black churches and a few multiracial ones where a politically liberal or left person can be at home. But most black churches are still theologically much more conservative than the UUs. And this frequently also means conservatism on issues like GLBT inclusion.
What is a theological liberal? Someone who smiles with recognition when told that Rabbi Lerner welcomes atheists to his services with the assurance that as far as his congregation is concerned “the God you don’t believe in doesn’t exist” before he launches into prayers and praise. Someone who believes in what Mitchell Silver called “A Plausible God,” a God even an atheist might believe in. The UUs have been called the largest group of organized agnostics in America. Be Scofield has been blogging here about future ministers at his seminary who are agnostics or atheists. But many other UUs, and theologically liberal Jews, Christians and Muslims are believers and use God language. It’s just that belief is not the central principle around which their worldview and membership of their congregation is organized.
The quote that turned Karen Armstrong, ex-nun turned atheist (and now one of the best known writers about religion), back to religion was Rabbi Hillel’s famous “Do not do unto others as you would not have done unto you. That is the Torah. The rest is commentary. Go and learn it.” She objected to Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby that believing in God surely can’t be just commentary. Maccoby replied: “Easy to see that you were brought up a Christian. Theology is just not important in Judaism, or in any other religion, really. There’s no orthodoxy as you have it in the Catholic Church. No complicated creeds to which everybody must subscribe. No infallible pronouncements by a pope. Nobody can tell Jews what to believe. Within reason, you can believe what you like.” Armstrong writes in her memoir, “I stared at him. I could not imagine a religion without belief.” From this time she began to absorb the notion that religion is not about intellectual assent, but about compassionate action.
But if that is what liberal religion is, then why are the most theologically liberal congregations, whether UU, Jewish, or Christian, so predominantly white and so highly educated? (I know of many theologically liberal Muslim individuals but not of mosques or congregations that so identify, and would be happy to be corrected; and it’s more than I can do here to include the complexities of Hindu, Buddhist and other congregations).
If it really is about compassionate action, doesn’t everyone respond equally to that? Maybe not if one is the recipient of the compassionate action, but is not attracted to joining the compassionate givers and to making their worldview one’s own, because the language is all wrong. Is it, then, all about changing the language, including the music, the accent, the cultural gestalt?
The author of the UU World‘s lead article, Paul Rasor, a UU theologian, argues that the denomination must become multicultural not to be politically correct or to grow, but “for spiritual and theological reasons.” These reasons seem to boil down to preserving theological liberalism itself, keeping it “intellectually credible and socially relevant.”
But this, in my limited experience as a UU, does often seem to mean in practice trying to modify the inherited WASPy culture of UU services to attract a wider cultural mix. This is a very hard thing to do. The most successful example I know of came about not by incremental changes but by a UU church joining with a black congregation that was moving theologically from born-again go-to-heaven-or-hell Christianity to a universalist God-loves-everyone faith: Carlton Pearson’s remarkable saga in Tulsa, Oklahoma. [Later addition: I am focusing on cultural language here, not on actual racism or class prejudice as a limiting factor: not because they don't exist, but because we white UUs seems to be much more aware that that's something we need to work on, and even if it were theoretically gone, our cultural style would remain].
Of course the old New England white culture of emotional restraint and ancient hymns and so on is very out of sync with our wider US culture today, including the culture of most white young people. So I am one of those UUs who long for more emotional expression, more recognition of suffering and evocation of joy, more moving music and inspiration in UU services. But not every UU I know agrees with me. If they would find a more expressive style alienating, then why should they do it? If the traditional style is a good place for their true spirituality to flourish, then it will show, love will be present, and people will feel it.
There can be many congregations and many styles. We don’t all have to worship together.
There were only a handful of Pentecostals in 1900. At current projections they will surpass the one billion mark by 2050. By 2000 Pentecostal numbers were increasing at about 52,000 a day. I am no expert on Pentecostals, but I assume that when they think about being relevant to poor inner city people, for example, of whatever color or culture, they don’t agonize about how to include them in middle class congregations: they start a home circle in the inner city, speaking the language of the people there and singing their music, and move into a storefront church as they grow. Christianity has done a lot of this down the centuries: think Christmas, The Virgin of Guadelupe and countless examples in Africa today of what sociologists call syncretism.
I have never heard of UUs who simply left their WASPy congregations and retooled their language and music so that they could bring the compassionate action of their worldview into play in poor neighborhoods: UU equivalents of the New Monastics for example. I am sure they have tried and I would like to hear the stories.
Has it in fact been tried and failed? Forget race for the moment and think about class (even though in this country they so often go together). Many people think that liberal theology itself is too conceptual, too ethereal, too intellectual to appeal to uneducated and stressed-out people in poverty. I don’t get it. Love is love. If belief is a barrier to you to expressing love in a congregation or a neighborhood, then making belief optional will help you, at least, to be more giving, open, generous, welcoming. And it’s not as if every poor person is a deep believer in a particular personal God who answers prayers and takes you to heaven: yes, that has it’s attractions but lots of people who are poor don’t believe it! Every congregation has its gradations of belief, even Pentecostal congregations, from the most believing to the least, who may be along just because the belief actually releases love vibes in the believers. Many belief-centered congregations are very loving and welcoming to their members (even if they think everyone else is going to hell and–at the extreme–think they could be helped to go there with a few more wars).
I think it fairly natural that since our first knowledge of love is our mother’s arms and breast or another caregiver’s arms, and that as we grow we depend on and long for love from the individuals around us, that we should respond to images of a loving cosmos in terms of a personal God. The personal God language does seem to be effective for many in turning them towards a religion of compassionate action. But others simply don’t buy that there is a God of that kind: tsunamis, genocides, wars and diseases do tend to erode that kind of confidence that Someone is answering our prayers. Why wouldn’t a religion based on a liberal theology be just as effective in poor neighborohoods if it releases in its practitioners an ability to love fiercely, or “ferally” as Lynice Pinkard likes to say?
In case I sound too lovey-dovey, as if I think the reason people stay in congregations is because of the love-vibe, let me just say I do understand that there are many reasons people get together in groups, and they seek all kinds of other goods in terms of status, material connection, existential comfort etc. I even completed a doctorate in the sociology of religion at Oxford. But I do think that the theological belief or unbelief that works best, that is truest, is the one that releases in you or me the ability to best love the other, and in ways the other can recognize and return or pass on. It is truest when it doesn’t leave anyone, or any living creature, out. That encompasses a wide range of belief and unbelief. I think liberal religion has a wide future if it enables us to be more compassionate and open, and not if it doesn’t. I’m not saying I know how to do it. I’m a novice. Probably most of us are.




Dave Belden tells us (above) that atheists are supposedly welcome at Rabbi Lerner’s services, and after Lerner tells them this, he launches into “praise and prayers”. SOUNDS LIKE A MIXED MESSAGE TO ATHEISTS TO ME!…Well there again is either the hypocrisy or naiveté of most “spiritual” people. First of all, most atheists like me would not even go near a synagogue or church, unless they really had to, so Lerner’s supposed openness to atheists is almost purely theoretical. But let’s assume an atheist goes for some reason..perhaps he is feeling lonely… or a death has occurred and this is a funeral service for a Jewish acquaintance…or he takes Lerner at face value and sincerily hope that he eventually can find some community here despite his atheism.. What does he find? A whole bunch of people praying and talking abouit God. Will he feel comfortable? No. How would he eventually feel about this supposed openness to atheists?…Patronised, because the underlying attitude of most beleivers are 1) if they are hypocrites: “you atheist who I have invited here will either eventually convert ,or you will leave on your own account ,or we will throw you out” 2) if they are naive: well-meaning Lerner types don’t recognise that it is very uncomfortable for atheists to be constantly surrounded by beleivers who are ALWAYS talking about God, despite their sincere wish to be “open”.The two simply cannot eventually co-exist on a long-term basis. So I would recommend you stop talking about it because your openness is bullshit.
I talk from personal experience. I spent years in a “spiritual” organisation as an atheist, in the Alcoholics Anonymous organisation. Before I entered the organisation, I too thought that perhaps this organisation would be full of enlightened “spiritual” types who would welcome me, an atheist, as they said they would in their literature. Moreover, as a drinker, I was in a desperate straight ,so all these questions were not purely abstract and intellectual: I needed human contact, people who would understand me, people who would care. Did I get that? Just a bit. The rest of their trip there is attempted indoctrination into their belief system , which is the most important thing to them , as it is for all other “spiritual” people (like Lerner), despite all their TALK about loving and caring and awe of the unoiverse…blah..blah..blahh… This experience with AA, as well as previous bad experiences with the New Age movement when I was younger, have made me utterly distrustful and contemptuous of ANY “spiritual” person, because you all have a PHONY side to you (some of you also have a caring side, but that is not enough to overcome my distrust). This is why I am often so mad after I come here to check out some of your articles at Tikkun (I do like some of them). Now, of couse, I will not be back here regularly to belabor these points, in case some of you are worried that I am repeatedly going to harrass you all. No, don’t worry. I have made my points. I feel comfortable somewhere else; I will not join you “spiritual” progressives, although as a Leftie, we have a lot in common. You will stay with your tribe with your hypocritical or naive “openness” to others ,and I will stick with mine with our legitimate hostility to our opponents.
Oh yeah, I hardly drink anymore, I feel better with little thanks to AA, and I am leaving that ignorant sentimental “loving” organisation that tried to turn me into one of their little angels of mercy who never gets angry.. It did not work!!
Marco
Marco, I have had friends who had your experience of AA and at least one other who found a basically agnostic AA meeting that didn’t care what she believed: she interpreted the Higher Power as the power of the group and it enabled her to get sober with the program. At the spiritual community I belonged to for some years, a wonderful Unitarian Universalist congregation in Kingston, NY, it appeared to me that about half the congregation were agnostics or atheists, though we didn’t ever take a poll. The minister was remarkably adept and wise in the use of inclusive language, such that neither the atheists nor the believers were alienated. Of course I’m talking about the atheists who stayed: a good number may have been too put off to stay around, I don’t know, but it was interesting to me how many of us agnostics and atheists there were who loved that community. So your experience and mine is quite different.
Dave’s posting and Marco’s response (ouch) remind me of a play called the Trial of God by Elie Wiesel. It was based on Wiesel’s experience in a concentration camp, when a group of men put God on trial for allowing the holocaust to happen. I helped act out the play in a reading over six weeks at the First Presbyterian Church of Palo Alto, where I can report – by the way – there have been several atheists attending for years because of the church’s social justice and peacemaking work. But I digress…
The play takes place after a terrible pogrom in a village, leaving virtually every Jew dead, and a group of traveling minstrels arrives and suggests putting God on trial. The devil takes on the role of defending God. The play is incredibly thought-provoking about God and those who believe or don’t believe in God.
In the play and in the concentration camp, they found God guilty. The irony is, after they decided their verdict, one of them realized what time it was and said “Now it is time for evening prayers.” And they settle down to pray.
I hope that folks like me, for whom faith is one of the driving factors carrying me into peacemaking and social justice work, can be sensitive in our language and deeds when we invite atheists and people of various faiths to join us in our causes. I can only speak for myself, a strange hybrid Jewbyterian, when I clearly say that I have absolutely no interest in converting anyone to any religion, but I do want to convert this world to a more loving, peaceful and just place. And, most of the people I’ve met through Tikkun and the Network of Spiritual Progressives, seem similarly driven.
Dave, yeah I tried the existing Agnostic and Atheists AA people (quite rare) on the Internet, and there the problem was their bourgeois attitude, that is to say: “Don’t raise your voice or we will throw you out”, which they did when I did raise my voice. You at least at Tikkun have not kicked me out for raising my voice, which is nice.. just ignored me “lovingly” for the most part (I can take a hint). As far as the Unitarians, I am glad it worked for you, but I am just not interested in ANYTHING even remotely spiritual. After my unfortunate AA experiences with their stupid “Higher Power” (what a joke!) , now I know more clearly that what really interests me is artistic, scientific, and psychological ( theories and practices of Wilhelm Reich, Janov, Lowen, who are scientific and deal constructively with anger and hate) ; but unfortunately, I now have to rebuild my life finding these more-like minded people of which there are few around. I should never have invested my time with AA, never (pure laziness, the numerous meetings were there…) ! I should have seen it coming. It took me a long time to find out that , in my opinion, 99.9% of “spiritual” people (whether Christan, Jewish, New Age, AA etccc..) do not interest me in the least as far as community or intimate relations.They are all more or less all alike in their patronising “peaceful” attitude, “above” all anger and “loving” everyone. Working once in a while with Pagans and Witches and Rabbis and Pastors and Buddhist Monks on social justice issues, fine ( while making very clear that some of us will get angry and confrontational, and will NOT tow their spiritual line in common public interventions) . But joining their communities, nyet. I’m not welcome and they know it deep down, despite their naiveté or hypocrisy.One may ask at this point, what about all the existing non-spiritual Left organisations? Well, there unfortunately again, if you are not a Nation-type Leftie (or its equivalent here in Quebec), you are persona non grata. They will not tolerate, for instance, anyone defending the Kosovo intervention, or those who criticise Chomsky, or those having anything good to say about the US or Obama or business. You get the picture . 99% of the Left , as you know, is a very very closed dogmatic circle.
I’l build something to my liking eventually. In the meantime, it is a pretty lonely road.
Marco
Some agnostic and atheist Jews and perhaps non-Jews have felt comfortable in the movement for Humanistic Judaism. This does not address the multi-cultural issue although there may be bi-racial couples who find a home within it.
Jane
Actually Marco I don’t respond much in the comments, for lack of time and brain space, so I am actually neglecting you less than I neglect most people! I wish I had more time for the conversations. I was raised in a religious movement and then left it and spent time in the activist and countercultural, antireligious left in my twenties, and then had many years when I couldn’t bear to join any movement or group of any kind, was allergic to the word “spiritual” and like terms, couldn’t read the Nation… so I have some kind of clue as to where you may be. I wish you all the very best in finding the likeminded and in building community with them.
Maybe the simple question – That one must ask – Is there implied-intent? – Or is it actual-intent?
Thomas Jefferson wrote on the state of party politics in the early 1820s:
An opinion prevails that there is no longer any distinction, that the republicans & Federalists
are completely amalgamated but it is not so. The amalgamation is of name only, not of principle.
All indeed call themselves by the name of Republicans, because that of Federalists was extinguished
in the battle of New Orleans. But the truth is that finding that monarchy is a desperate wish in
the country, they rally to the point which they think next best, a consolidated government. Their aim
now therefore to break down the rights reserved by the constitution to the states as a bulwark against
that consolidation, the fear of which produced the whole of the opposition to the constitution at its
birth. Hence new Republicans in Congress, preaching the doctrines of the old Federalists, and the new nick-names of Ultras and Radicals. But I trust they will fail under the new, as the old name, and that the friends of the real constitution and union will prevail against consolidation, as they have done
against monarchism. I scarcely know myself which is most to be deprecated, a consolidation, or dissolution of the states. The horrors of both are beyond the reach of human foresight. – - -
With the Writer of The Constitution – An Opinion Prevails – Calling Federalist’s A Monarchy
- – - That was extinguised in The Battle of New-Orleans – - – And we know how they use bits
and pieces to fit there views – Even about Madison and Hamiltion – - –
The views espoused by Publius sometimes differed from the arguments made by Hamilton and Madison in the Constitutional Convention; and that a large portion of the American people and the delegates to the state ratifying conventions did not agree with The Federalist. – - – Porpoganda ” ” “from the beginning of government under the Constitution, Americans have relied on The Federalist as the most authoritative source for understanding the intent of the framers ” ” ” So this isn’t the first time – The Monarchy – Has tried to get it’s Claws into America Once again …
A very important post for UUs to consider, Dave. I hope you sent it off to _The UU World_. One of the things you imply that I agree with is that we UUs need to get out of our heads more if we want to continue to be relevant to a larger population. As a “feeler’ in a “thinker” congregation, I experience this disconnect quite often. I believe that this large difference between Unitarian Universalism, as I’ve experienced it, and say African-American Christianity of whatever stripe is a big hurdle for us highly-educated UUs (and therefore highly trained in a particular worldview and a particular way of interacting) to overcome.
This is all so loaded I hesitate to touch it. If your “traditional” services are boring, it’s because you’re boring and not because your tradition is boring. Are you so helpless that you can’t find warmth and soul in your own cultural trappings; are you so un-inventive that you can’t make those psalm tunes shine and sparkle? Why don’t you get busy researching the ancient roots of shape-note singing and Reformed church tunes…of the emotional content of 18th Cent. Methodist hymnody–which when done with passion is amazing stuff!–and get in touch with your own emotional warmth and your own dynamic traditions. You people are letting a whole stream of genuinely moving, stirring and fantastic worship DIE because you think someone else does it better than you do, and they do because you all are too SCARED and restrained to DO IT RIGHT! Our European ancestors HEARD the French DANCES behind the Old One Hundred and sung it with gusto and rhythm…why don’t you experiment, do some research and git busy? But no, you’d rather indulge your HOLY ENVY and co-opt a whole other set of voices and LET YOUR OWN VOICE, and YOUR OWN HISTORY which is NOT SHAMEFUL, just DIE in the process. Thats EXCELLENT, thanks. How about the ecstasies of Taize?
I am disheartened and depressed by all this.
Oh, and second of all, stop having your principal service on Sunday mornings! You’re so busy thinking that white people religious music is outdated that you don’t even consider that maybe white people religious scheduling is also outdated!! We LUUUUVVVV to sleep in, and sometimes Sun. mornings are the only time the working classes get to sleep in. Musicians likewise aren’t at our best at 9.30 am ANY day of the week, but you want us to be dynamic and inventive and exciting after an exciting and “inventive” Saturday night? BOOO. Ridiculous. Nowadays, in this cultural environment, you do fun and exciting things in the late afternoon and evening, NOT on Sunday morning. Prayer and study meetings, or a dignified morning office, sure, that’s great on a Sunday morning. But the principal worship service would be far more attractive as it closes out the weekend AND starts the week on a Sunday evening.
Clint, I fully agree that traditional European music can be done with great feeling and depth. I assume any cultural expression that has come out of long tradition and has been much loved can be brought to life. At the same time cultural styles do differ in terms of emotional expressiveness, and it’s no surprise that the middle classes have historically tended towards repressed emotional styles at least in the Anglo world. There’s a whole sociology behind that that I expect you are aware of but Barbara Ehrenreich had a good read on it in her well named book about the middle classes “The Fear of Falling.” She talks about how in our times the American middle classes have tried to loosen up and have imported a good deal of music and affect from lower class sources — from rock and roll to hip hop — as well as from influences like aerobics, therapy and feminism. So musical tastes have changed and the younger generations in particular have a different ear. I heard Jeremiah Wright give a long talk about how he took a small declining black church, in which they sang spirituals in a “white” manner in order to be more “refined” I guess, and introduced the kind of gospel, jazz and blues sounds that brought in a younger and less narrowly class-based black constituency who turned the church into a megachurch (here: http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/05/21/the-sadness-of-jeremiah-wright/). This is akin to what some people want to see in Unitarian Universalism.
I am sure the European tradition is very alive and well in some churches, but my question in this post is much wider than preserving that tradition and enabling it to live: it is about whether the theology of liberal religion can be carried in many different cultural styles so anyone can have benefit of it. I am asking how much people have tried to do that, not by changing middle class European-style congregations to bring other people in, but by just doing liberal religion in another style from the start. I just don’t know what people have done. And then I am raising the issue one hears about how liberal theology typically appeals to highly educated and middle to upper class people and doesn’t have a “robust enough God” to appeal to poor people, as a friend said to me recently: this is almost like a received wisdom but I am skeptical about it.
Dear David Belden: This may come as a surprise to you, but I have to thank you for the generosity and human decency of your replies to me. Of all the people I have interacted with here at Tikkun up to now, you are the only person that walks the talk, and I do appreciate it.
Marco
Hi david,letting you know i had a disappointing exsperience joining a group of spiritual progressives at a Unitarian church in Barre Vermont 2 years ago.
I really felt the minster and his girlfriend were not very compassionate toward those in need or the poor in general.And really were both from upper middle class families with no empathy for those disenfranchised by our competitive system( michael lerner’s book spirit matters,and its whole premise,went totally over their heads and hearts if felt),and i even felt ridiculed about my passion for social justice.The ministers girlfriend even stated to me in effect why try to change the reality of class /oppression in general,because if one ever gets in a position of power,it’s too difficult to resist corrupting power,so until i get into a position of power,don’t criticize corrupt people,because i would most likely enjoy the corrupt power over others too!And she herself was finally in a position of power with her job,and inheritence of $$$$!,so i should take her advice.
This lack of integrity is so pervasive in this culture i feel like i am in the wrong section of this awesome universe.
If the issue is one of style, I expect we shall never be able to work together. I am not going to wear baggy pants that expose my underwear nor my baseball cap backward, etc. I don’t expect that classical music concerts will ever try to be rock concerts, even while one can make money in the latter and the former are struggling. I will not speak the street vernacular even if dj’s play it 24 hours a day–which they are doing. And I live in a multi-racial family with youth who are tempted by style everyday.
Liberal religion has dimensions and issues of style but only because we live at a time when theology is suffering (sic) from too much information. Yes, even in religion there are questions of style, but one can measure the integrity of religion to the extent that style, alone, is a minor matter.
We live in a time when one can get a degree in religious studies in higher education that has no denominational style attached to it. Religion is an academic field in public universities. No one needs a degree to attend a religious service, but the tradition of an educated clergy will always be disjunctive with a clergy of enthusiasm alone.
Competition between belief and love is nonsense. Everyone who is thoughtful believes. Everyone who is human loves. The significant distinction is that some feel a need for justifying what they believe and how they love and others do not. Some are serious and others are not. I hope those who have been serious enough to seek education will not measure themselves by those who are frivolous. The latter may look like they are having more fun, but shuking and jiving have always paraded as fun. Life is work, and work can be enjoyed.
First of all, Jamie, I’m not at all surprised at your experience. I’ve seen some really difficult people in the pews at my local Unitarian church here in Oklahoma City, lots of scowling and flinching and general social dis-ease, so bad it was almost comical. At least your difficult people were honest enough to tell you how they really felt! Nothing ever gets fixed if people aren’t honest up front.
David: while I realize that worship styles were only tangential to your main point, I find that everything comes out at church, in church, by church.
Why are white, liberal religionists so shy? Why all the social anxiety? Why all the fear of failure? Who put it there? What’s the problem? This is a HUGE self-confidence problem, at the root. What is it that you feel is wrong with your theology, and your hymnody? Why do you dislike yourselves so much? Why do you feel like the grass is always greener somewhere else? Why is your theological language so dispassionate, so empty, so desperate to fix everything that might be wrong with it, so desperate to be right? Why is mythic language so vehemently avoided? Why is it always explained away? Why the need to explain it away, esp. at church? Why do people even come to church, if not to experience that which transforms and moves us beyond? How is that going to happen if everything is so nice all the time? Why is everything explained away in the very place were explanations might not be appropriate? Why are liberal religionists trying so hard to organize free group therapy sessions, instead of having church? Why do you need a church to practice social justice, or to set up interactions with different classes and cultures (Even Freemasonry used to do that!)? Why come together as a church at all, instead just create a charity or whatever? Inspirational preaching and teaching and dynamic music–by whose standards? Who gets to tell you that what you’re doing is inspirational and dynamic? And who cares? Is it really all about YOU anyway? What you want? Who cares what YOU or Rev. So and So, or Little Miss Dissatisfied wants, what does Unitarianism and Universalism require? If it requires nothing religious, just feeling good, why even go to church? Why not just hang out at someone’s house, drinking coffee and singing along with gospel CD’s, or perhaps some Krishna Das kirtan singing: all of which I enjoy a lot, but why would I want to go to church if I can do that in my living room, or at someone else’s church?
Faith happens when you have NOTHING LEFT, but you go forward anyway. Yet y’all want EVERYTHING. You’re asking the wrong questions, going on fool’s errands. Downsize even farther. Tell your parishioners, “If you don’t want to love the person next to you, go home now. If you don’t want to deepen these relationships by a shared religious experience, leave now and don’t go to any church or temple until you’re ready to do that. We DO have THINGS to DO, that REQUIRE things of every person in this room, and the first requirement is trust. If you just want ethical guidance and self-congratulations, start a philosophy club with your friends and meet on your own time. This here, this is the Church’s time, when we come to be refreshed in a way that we can’t be refreshed by anything else, anywhere else, with anyone else. If you are a guest, we are honored to have you here, and you will be welcomed and cared for, but not coddled or babied.”
Give it all up. If there’s no faith, there’s no church, its just a pretty club house, another place for pretty people to go and bore themselves to death.
Why cannot religion be articulate without being dismissed as “a philosophy club”? The American tradition of an educated clergy begins with the founders. Yes, subsequently the revivalist great awakenings attracted a lot of people with the idea that sin condemns us to eternal torment. Without education, people accepted that for a long time. Today the very traditions that prospered from that brand barely mention it, because no one any longer believes they are going to hell.
Does American institutional religion reflect the American class divides? Does a bear…well, you know the rest. Is American institutional religion prepared to confront American class divides? I doubt it. To me, that’s the issue. Clergy are like politicians who depend on the rich. Those who pay the piper call the tune. Money talks, b.s. walks.
And that includes “love the person next to you.” It’s easy to *love* them (whatever that means: eros? I doubt it; filia? maybe;. agape? who is capable of that?) when you can walk away from them following the postlude. Love is god is more likely to be the motivation than God is love. It’s a pity to trivialize such significance. But that’s all a part of living in the new dark ages.
A well-educated and articulate leadership is essential for religious health. It is only when people do nothing but articulate that we get church-as-philosophy club. Buddhism and the various Hinduisms have extremely rich philosophical traditions–and gorgeous artistic expression, sometimes ecstatic religious worship and strong communities too. Growing up in rural Oklahoma, some of the most well-educated and articulate people were Episcopal priests in nearby Fort Smith, AR. I admired them so much I thought I wanted to be one of them, until the discernment process did it’s job and I discovered “Not here and now.”
And who are you to say I trivialize the bonds of love within a religious community? I’ve been there and seen it, and felt it and known it. It’s not just a Sunday morning feel-good, it’s a continual practice rooted in trust and shared experience. I’m a music director for Catholics, and the choir (and I!) are some close-knit folks, there’s lots of love in that loft. Just because I don’t share their Church’s explanations of what it all means doesn’t diminish the love, or my capacity to find meaning, challenge, joy and of course, Music in the liturgy.
Finally don’t fall into the trap that all poor people are nice people in cheap clothes, or that all rich people are greedy power-mongers in designer jeans. Growing up, it wasn’t the rich people who were physically threatening to this High Episcopalian proto-gay kid in a divided Baptist/Assembly of God town!
My reply was to the Clint Davis who wrote, “…what does Unitarianism and Universalism require? If it requires nothing religious, just feeling good, why even go to church?” That trivializes the religious practices of others.
Consequently when such is followed by a pious admonition to “love,” in the midst of a harangue loosely disguised by questions that are clearly rhetorical (accusations disguised as questions), I raise the possibility that such a Clint Davis is less than sincere. So even if I were just someone who is tired of being told that love is the answer–which it is, but not anything that anyone else can tell you should be done–I’d raise the possibility of hypocrisy. As a wise teacher once said, “Physician, heal thyself.”
All of my questions are an entirely sincere train of thought, and it is frustrating to me that one would rather attack me than actually answer my inquiries. I want to find a place in the kinds of communities here described, but these are the kinds of questions I feel I need answered before I could ever say yes, because the obligations of religious community are very very serious, and I take them so seriously that I will refrain from making them until I know I fit. Why does that make me a person in need of some kind of healing–the assumption is that I am in some way sick–or some kind of internet troll who delights in attacking others?
“That trivializes the religious practices of others.” No it doesn’t, in making the disputed statement, I really do, and very sincerely and with an open heart, want an answer as to why one would go to church if one just wants to feel good, when there is a whole world full of other, less stereotypically “boring” options for feeling good. I really do want to know, from a liberal religious point of view, what kind of “feeling good” does church give, that somewhere else doesn’t?
Look, when I was in ministry discernment, I was asked very difficult questions along the same lines as the ones I was asking above, and they were theological questions, ecclesiological questions, questions about my assumptions concerning the various kinds of ministry, about faith and the religious life, one after another, for months on end. I enjoyed being challenged and given the opportunity to fine-tune my thinking and answer people who obviously cared a great deal about me, about the church, and about religion in general. I am giving the topic of Why Liberal Church, And How? the same respect as was given me, as I learned from people I loved. If I had not a care for this at all, I wouldn’t have bothered to comment. I have hardcore, Far Right Latin Rite Catholics to harass about female servers and vernacular hymns, if I want to get into a good fight about something I am more than knowledgeable enough to fight about :-)
Clint, I think you ask tremendously deep questions and I am sitting here at the Tikkun office with a mountain of things to do wishing I could get deeply into thinking about them, but I know that I can’t yet. I am hoping others may do.
January, I didn’t really follow why you questioned Clint’s sincerity, though I do think that if we were all sitting in a room together we could sooner or later come to understand why our formulations do, or don’t, push each other’s buttons. In this kind of online exchange it’s much harder.
Marco, I was very happy to read your last comment. I have a tendency to react defensively when I feel criticized, and have become aware how often that is counterproductive. While in person I might go straight to defensiveness and counterattack, online if I start writing that way I at least have a chance to look at my words before I hit ‘submit comment’ and to realize that I am just being reactive again, and to wonder if I could try instead to understand more where the other person is coming from.
Well , Dave, whatever you did to come off with a certain sincere warmth and decency to me, it worked. As opposed to others here who tried and failed, because they don’t walk their “spiritual” talk enough (like most shallow “spiritual” people). Some may retort, what about you , Marco, are you any better? Well, in one way: I don’t preach and profess love and compassion and awe of the bloody universe ad nauseam, I am courteous and kind to those who are kind and decent with me, BUT I openly admit proudly that I would wreek revenge and hurt on anyone who first hurt me (unlike the so-called pacifists or spiritual types who can apparently keep cool and “loving”while they are being insulted, abused and, pummelled for no good reason. These latter lie and are hypocrites! ). I profess and act upon common run-of-the -mill prudence and courtesy. If I , however, hurt, another for no good reason, I can apologise, but I don’t continually preach forgivenesss as some do here ad nauseam, little saints that they are.. So expectations from me as to extra loving-kindness beyond the daily routine would be low so I could not be accused of hypocrisy.
MY credo: “We are non-violent with those who are non-violent with us, but we are NOT non-violent with those who are violent with us” Malcolm X Right on, Malcolm!
Marco
Hi again: This is off-topic, but I really do not know where to address this on the Tikkun site, if anywhere. And I felt it was important enough that it might interest some people here.
On the primordial topic of what constitute true peace between people, I have few things to say because it is so elusive in daily life and internationally. But I came across an interview ,and a work of Art yesterday that I found most inspiring in this regard, and I would like to share them with you:
The first is an interview that a Jewish historian Avi Shlaim did with King Hussein of Jordan, and that has been published in Shlaim’s new book “Israel and Palestine”. I found Hussein’s words very empathetic towards Israelis and all people really. There was a decency and kindness to his words which really moved me. Please check this out, you will not be dissapointed. Perhaps Tikkun can re-print the interview.
The second is an Israeli film called “The Band’s Visit” (“Bikur ar-Tizmoret”) by Eran Kolirin , about the visit of an Egyptian Army fanfare band to Israel, that gets lost at an Israeli border town, must sleep the night there, are put up by some Israelis (somewhat warily !), chat , exchange confidences, and leave with some genuine friendship for each other. It is very moving. The Arab music that played at the end is sublime. Wow. I hope you all will check out this beautiful touching movie by a great Israeli artist.
Marco
Dave, it’s OK, just answer those questions sometime for someone, maybe even for yourself, if you find them valuable. To me, it just looked like y’all were asking the same old questions that really don’t have good answers, or have answers you’ve already given but they didn’t work out so well. I was just thinking of new questions, with answers I know would at least be helpful for me, but that’s all I know about the helpfulness of my questioning.
Stand up for yourselves sometimes though, just like you are. No one else is going to. I love my nerdy white Unitarians with all their classes and coffee, and my feisty black AME ladies who know how to make a believer out of you, and my High WASPy Whiskepalians who, like the AME ladies, also know how to have church, or those sweet little Hindu gals that don’t know quite what to do with this white boy at the temple but graciously feed him and keep him out of trouble. And those awesome, grace-emanating Vietnamese Zen monks I met on the southside, and that grand Japanese lady at the Rissho Kosei Kai temple who questioned us whiteys if forgiveness really was compatible with Buddhism (she really had a point, no kidding!).
Everybody, just be who you are and be the best at it. People will remember you then, and know where to go when they need what you got. The “trick” is, to be so good at it that people really believe they need what you got, but first you have to convince yourself, then convince yourself to act convinced.