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	<title>Comments on: The Seven Moral Principles of Kwanzaa</title>
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	<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/</link>
	<description>A Voice for Tikkun Olam (healing the world)</description>
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		<title>By: Valerie Elverton Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4561</link>
		<dc:creator>Valerie Elverton Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4561</guid>
		<description>I think you are concentrating too much on Karenga and his organization.  As I said before, the principles will stand long after Karenga and his organization are gone.  Everything has meaning within context.  These principles may be liberatory within a liberatory intentionality, used by people whose purpose is to work together for justice.

It is important to understand, whether or not Karenga&#039;s organization does or not, that there can be a concept of community without conformity and without the notion of robotic obedience.  This is one of the reasons that I gave an explanation of some African philosophical concepts before presenting the principles.  Diversity, disdain for excess, the significance of the individual voice, and the possibility of divine interruption into human affairs through the voice of a transcendent spirit speaking through the voice of believers are all important to place these principles within a context that existed before Karnga.

As for Santa Claus, it is important to understand this figure as an archetype, as a personification of something larger than just a fat man in a red suit bringing presents to children.

Thanks again for your comments.

Peace,
Valerie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are concentrating too much on Karenga and his organization.  As I said before, the principles will stand long after Karenga and his organization are gone.  Everything has meaning within context.  These principles may be liberatory within a liberatory intentionality, used by people whose purpose is to work together for justice.</p>
<p>It is important to understand, whether or not Karenga&#8217;s organization does or not, that there can be a concept of community without conformity and without the notion of robotic obedience.  This is one of the reasons that I gave an explanation of some African philosophical concepts before presenting the principles.  Diversity, disdain for excess, the significance of the individual voice, and the possibility of divine interruption into human affairs through the voice of a transcendent spirit speaking through the voice of believers are all important to place these principles within a context that existed before Karnga.</p>
<p>As for Santa Claus, it is important to understand this figure as an archetype, as a personification of something larger than just a fat man in a red suit bringing presents to children.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your comments.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Valerie</p>
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		<title>By: messy</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4528</link>
		<dc:creator>messy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 22:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4528</guid>
		<description>&quot;Karenga&quot; was at times a Black Muslim and others a Stalinist, and both groups were of the totalitarian mindset. His &quot;African Culture&quot; was much like Santa Claus, a recently made up myth meant to entertain children. The principles are mostly bogus, and the candlestick is a parody of a menorah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Karenga&#8221; was at times a Black Muslim and others a Stalinist, and both groups were of the totalitarian mindset. His &#8220;African Culture&#8221; was much like Santa Claus, a recently made up myth meant to entertain children. The principles are mostly bogus, and the candlestick is a parody of a menorah.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Belden</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4527</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Belden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4527</guid>
		<description>Creativity: only certain things may be created, so shut up and create as you&#039;re told. 

Yes, of course, just about anything can be made to mean &quot;shut up and do as you&#039;re told&quot; if you embed it in a cultural context that insists on hierarchy of that kind. I hear you! 

But does that mean we can&#039;t decide for ourselves what our chosen principles mean? I don&#039;t accept your definitions, for a start: so am I being an individualist or a communitarian in rejecting your take? As I see it, unity, cooperation and collective work and purpose are necessary for any human society: even the most ornery libertarian depends on others in multiple ways. Caring and love, forgiveness and adaptation to help others meet their needs, the skills of cooperative and interdependent living with other people and species -- none of these require the obliteration of the individual, as you appear to fear, do they? Or am I reading you wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Creativity: only certain things may be created, so shut up and create as you&#8217;re told. </p>
<p>Yes, of course, just about anything can be made to mean &#8220;shut up and do as you&#8217;re told&#8221; if you embed it in a cultural context that insists on hierarchy of that kind. I hear you! </p>
<p>But does that mean we can&#8217;t decide for ourselves what our chosen principles mean? I don&#8217;t accept your definitions, for a start: so am I being an individualist or a communitarian in rejecting your take? As I see it, unity, cooperation and collective work and purpose are necessary for any human society: even the most ornery libertarian depends on others in multiple ways. Caring and love, forgiveness and adaptation to help others meet their needs, the skills of cooperative and interdependent living with other people and species &#8212; none of these require the obliteration of the individual, as you appear to fear, do they? Or am I reading you wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: messy</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4526</link>
		<dc:creator>messy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4526</guid>
		<description>Okay, Let&#039;s look at &#039;em:

1)Unity: we much all think and do the same thing: shut up and do as you&#039;re told!
2)Self Determination: as a group, the leadership, and only the leadership has the right to determine the self
3)Collective Work &amp; Responsibility: Collective, that means the group trumps the indvidual, and the group has the responsiblity. In order to keep the collective we must shut up do was we&#039;re told.
4)Cooperative Economics: in order to cooperate properly, we must shut up and do as the leadership, who is far wiser than we, wishes, for the good of the collective.
5)Purpose, this is to quote the website: &quot;To make as our collective vocation &quot; Collective! The leadership must give us purpose, thus we must shut up and do as we are told.
6)Creativity: Okay, you&#039;ve got me,but one out of seven is indeed bad. 
7)Faith: In what? &quot;our parents, our teachers, our leaders&quot; Ah, yes, our teachers and our leaders, never to be questioned! We mush shut up and do as we are told.

Six out of seven principles can be boiled down to one:  &quot;shut up and do as you&#039;re told.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, Let&#8217;s look at &#8216;em:</p>
<p>1)Unity: we much all think and do the same thing: shut up and do as you&#8217;re told!<br />
2)Self Determination: as a group, the leadership, and only the leadership has the right to determine the self<br />
3)Collective Work &amp; Responsibility: Collective, that means the group trumps the indvidual, and the group has the responsiblity. In order to keep the collective we must shut up do was we&#8217;re told.<br />
4)Cooperative Economics: in order to cooperate properly, we must shut up and do as the leadership, who is far wiser than we, wishes, for the good of the collective.<br />
5)Purpose, this is to quote the website: &#8220;To make as our collective vocation &#8221; Collective! The leadership must give us purpose, thus we must shut up and do as we are told.<br />
6)Creativity: Okay, you&#8217;ve got me,but one out of seven is indeed bad.<br />
7)Faith: In what? &#8220;our parents, our teachers, our leaders&#8221; Ah, yes, our teachers and our leaders, never to be questioned! We mush shut up and do as we are told.</p>
<p>Six out of seven principles can be boiled down to one:  &#8220;shut up and do as you&#8217;re told.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Valerie Elverton Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4502</link>
		<dc:creator>Valerie Elverton Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4502</guid>
		<description>This information about the conviction of Karenga and others is disturbing.  However, this does not negate the power of the moral principles.  What makes these principles potent and effective is not Karenga&#039;s morality, but the way people choose to understand and to live the principles.  If we discounted every good offering that comes from a confused, corrupt,conflicted or even criminal mind and personality, we would have to toss much that has helped humanity come a very long way.

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner who gave the world a beautiful and useful document, The Declaration of Independence.  The seven principles will be with us long after Karenga.  

Thanks for the information.

Peace,
Valerie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This information about the conviction of Karenga and others is disturbing.  However, this does not negate the power of the moral principles.  What makes these principles potent and effective is not Karenga&#8217;s morality, but the way people choose to understand and to live the principles.  If we discounted every good offering that comes from a confused, corrupt,conflicted or even criminal mind and personality, we would have to toss much that has helped humanity come a very long way.</p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner who gave the world a beautiful and useful document, The Declaration of Independence.  The seven principles will be with us long after Karenga.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the information.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Valerie</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Belden</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4500</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Belden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 23:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4500</guid>
		<description>Wow, dyspepsia rules! Self determination is about shutting up and doing as you&#039;re told? Run that by me again? Purpose, creativity, cooperation, faith? Unity and collective work? I guess any values can be twisted by dominators to suppress people -- we have seen that time and again -- but that doesn&#039;t mean all decent values are variations on domination. The opposite of domination is partnership, and the values that support partnership seem remarkably like the seven Kwanzaa principles to me. Not to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, dyspepsia rules! Self determination is about shutting up and doing as you&#8217;re told? Run that by me again? Purpose, creativity, cooperation, faith? Unity and collective work? I guess any values can be twisted by dominators to suppress people &#8212; we have seen that time and again &#8212; but that doesn&#8217;t mean all decent values are variations on domination. The opposite of domination is partnership, and the values that support partnership seem remarkably like the seven Kwanzaa principles to me. Not to you?</p>
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		<title>By: messy</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4494</link>
		<dc:creator>messy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4494</guid>
		<description>Kwanzaa was the artificial creation of a pervert and racist named Ron Karenga (born Ronald McKinley Everett), who according to wikipedia:

&quot;In 1971, Karenga, Louis Smith, and Luz Maria Tamayo were convicted of felony assault and false imprisonment for assaulting and torturing over a two day period two women from the US Organization, Deborah Jones and Gail Davis.[7] An article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women: &quot;Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis&#039; mouth and placed against Miss Davis&#039; face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said&quot;.

The so-called seven principles, are basically variations of one single principle: &quot;Shut up and do as you&#039;re told.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kwanzaa was the artificial creation of a pervert and racist named Ron Karenga (born Ronald McKinley Everett), who according to wikipedia:</p>
<p>&#8220;In 1971, Karenga, Louis Smith, and Luz Maria Tamayo were convicted of felony assault and false imprisonment for assaulting and torturing over a two day period two women from the US Organization, Deborah Jones and Gail Davis.[7] An article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women: &#8220;Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis&#8217; mouth and placed against Miss Davis&#8217; face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said&#8221;.</p>
<p>The so-called seven principles, are basically variations of one single principle: &#8220;Shut up and do as you&#8217;re told.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Valerie Elverton Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4235</link>
		<dc:creator>Valerie Elverton Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4235</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for your interest and for your comments.  For more on the cultural unity of African peoples
see the work of:
Cheikh Anta Diop
Melville J. Herskovits
Peter Paris
Deborah Grey White
Sterling Stuckey
John Mbiti

There has been much work done on the presence of Africans in the Bible, but the idea of an African Bible is very intriguing.

Peace,
Valerie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for your interest and for your comments.  For more on the cultural unity of African peoples<br />
see the work of:<br />
Cheikh Anta Diop<br />
Melville J. Herskovits<br />
Peter Paris<br />
Deborah Grey White<br />
Sterling Stuckey<br />
John Mbiti</p>
<p>There has been much work done on the presence of Africans in the Bible, but the idea of an African Bible is very intriguing.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Valerie</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4212</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4212</guid>
		<description>Wonderful moral principles and applicable to all people and all times, so I hope the messages will be widely spread.

Happy Kwanzaa to all who observe it and best wishes in getting the principle more widely spread for all of society.

Unfortunately, one reality that we must face in every aspect of life is that the world is rapidly approaching an unprecedented climate catastrophe. Hence, we must make responding a central focus in all of our activities, so I hope Kwanzaa and all holidays and occasions will consider this, lest we face a very difficult future that will dampen this and all other holidays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful moral principles and applicable to all people and all times, so I hope the messages will be widely spread.</p>
<p>Happy Kwanzaa to all who observe it and best wishes in getting the principle more widely spread for all of society.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, one reality that we must face in every aspect of life is that the world is rapidly approaching an unprecedented climate catastrophe. Hence, we must make responding a central focus in all of our activities, so I hope Kwanzaa and all holidays and occasions will consider this, lest we face a very difficult future that will dampen this and all other holidays.</p>
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		<title>By: Gwendoline Y. Fortune</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/12/26/the-seven-moral-principles-of-kwanzaa/comment-page-1/#comment-4211</link>
		<dc:creator>Gwendoline Y. Fortune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=8456#comment-4211</guid>
		<description>About 20 years ago I attended a workshop with Malidoma and Sobonfu Some., I told them I had a dream to write &quot;An African Bible,&quot; to portray the roots and progression of African spiritual thought and practices from the earliest known, Nubian, across Africa--a Diaspora--to this continent. I wanted to &quot;find&quot; the interfacing of essential concepts of spiritual aspiration and de-clutter the socio-cultural mores. As a current Unitarian-Universalist with no allegiance to a deist tradition, but with spiritual inclinations I&#039;d love to collaborate with anyone to bring this to popular reading form. Any takers? Goggle or email gyfort@earthlink.net,  Gwendoline Y. Fortune</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About 20 years ago I attended a workshop with Malidoma and Sobonfu Some., I told them I had a dream to write &#8220;An African Bible,&#8221; to portray the roots and progression of African spiritual thought and practices from the earliest known, Nubian, across Africa&#8211;a Diaspora&#8211;to this continent. I wanted to &#8220;find&#8221; the interfacing of essential concepts of spiritual aspiration and de-clutter the socio-cultural mores. As a current Unitarian-Universalist with no allegiance to a deist tradition, but with spiritual inclinations I&#8217;d love to collaborate with anyone to bring this to popular reading form. Any takers? Goggle or email <a href="mailto:gyfort@earthlink.net">gyfort@earthlink.net</a>,  Gwendoline Y. Fortune</p>
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