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	<title>Comments on: Kucinich Denounces Health Care Sell-Out by Pelosi and the House Dems</title>
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	<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/</link>
	<description>A Voice for Tikkun Olam (healing the world)</description>
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		<title>By: Matt J.</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2556</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2556</guid>
		<description>Newsflash: the reason the public doesn&#039;t respond with outrage is that the public does NOT find Kucinich or his claims convincing.

Reading the clueless support for him in this forum reveals why: ALL of you are far too quick to blame capitalism itself for our helthcare crisis, and loudly shout that interfering with capitalism is the only solution.

But in the social sciences, there are few facts as sound as this: interfering with the law of supply and demand inevitably either raises costs or forces rationing of supply.

We ALREADY have both in our health care market. The public believes Kucinich and his plans will only make it worse. THAT is why they are content to let the lobbyists get away with this rather than follow Kucinich&#039;s call.

Finally, even that scary clause on p22, allowing a 25% increase, might not be as bad as he says: they are, after all, submitting to alot of regulation to get that 25% increase, that regulation is in turn designed to make sure we actually get more complete coverage for our premiums.

The problem is, of course, that this too is interference with the law of supply and demand, so it too runs the risk of only driving up costs.

Finally, don&#039;t let the &#039;progressives&#039; fool you: one of the reasons Europeans get away with paying less  is that the pharmaceutical industry -- both US and European -- has been financing the expensive drug development process with profits from the US.

That&#039;s right. We have been subsidizing drug development. So what happens when those funds dry up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newsflash: the reason the public doesn&#8217;t respond with outrage is that the public does NOT find Kucinich or his claims convincing.</p>
<p>Reading the clueless support for him in this forum reveals why: ALL of you are far too quick to blame capitalism itself for our helthcare crisis, and loudly shout that interfering with capitalism is the only solution.</p>
<p>But in the social sciences, there are few facts as sound as this: interfering with the law of supply and demand inevitably either raises costs or forces rationing of supply.</p>
<p>We ALREADY have both in our health care market. The public believes Kucinich and his plans will only make it worse. THAT is why they are content to let the lobbyists get away with this rather than follow Kucinich&#8217;s call.</p>
<p>Finally, even that scary clause on p22, allowing a 25% increase, might not be as bad as he says: they are, after all, submitting to alot of regulation to get that 25% increase, that regulation is in turn designed to make sure we actually get more complete coverage for our premiums.</p>
<p>The problem is, of course, that this too is interference with the law of supply and demand, so it too runs the risk of only driving up costs.</p>
<p>Finally, don&#8217;t let the &#8216;progressives&#8217; fool you: one of the reasons Europeans get away with paying less  is that the pharmaceutical industry &#8212; both US and European &#8212; has been financing the expensive drug development process with profits from the US.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s right. We have been subsidizing drug development. So what happens when those funds dry up?</p>
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		<title>By: Adele C.</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2541</link>
		<dc:creator>Adele C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2541</guid>
		<description>Various blurbs I viewed about what was going on during the health care &quot;debate&quot; gave me ample warning that &quot;We the People&quot; were about to get one of the more royal screwings in history by the insurance companies and the feds. 

I work in health care (40+ years) and Representative Kucinich is absolutely right about the massive increase in &quot;administrators&quot; versus doctors and other health care people.  We have more billing people than we have nurses, spending hundreds of thousands of hours per year trying to squeeze money out of insurance companies for the services we render. This all started when they began having for-profit insurance companies (or buzzards) the only goal of which is to hold on to enough money to pay their CEOs millions of dollars in salaries.  (Check out the Daily Kos, for one, on compensation for Health Insurance Execs).  

We have 12 doctors in my clinic and I can guarantee you their combined salaries do not equal that of the one CEO of the insurance company we use for the employees, whose annual pay last time I looked was about $12 million in base pay and about another $10-12 million in perks.  OF COURSE health care costs have been going up!  

I won&#039;t even venture into a discussion about the &quot;masters and commanders&quot; of the female reproductive system: the religious right and the roman catholic church.  The whole thing is a farce.  

The Obama administration has received my very last dime and my very last vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Various blurbs I viewed about what was going on during the health care &#8220;debate&#8221; gave me ample warning that &#8220;We the People&#8221; were about to get one of the more royal screwings in history by the insurance companies and the feds. </p>
<p>I work in health care (40+ years) and Representative Kucinich is absolutely right about the massive increase in &#8220;administrators&#8221; versus doctors and other health care people.  We have more billing people than we have nurses, spending hundreds of thousands of hours per year trying to squeeze money out of insurance companies for the services we render. This all started when they began having for-profit insurance companies (or buzzards) the only goal of which is to hold on to enough money to pay their CEOs millions of dollars in salaries.  (Check out the Daily Kos, for one, on compensation for Health Insurance Execs).  </p>
<p>We have 12 doctors in my clinic and I can guarantee you their combined salaries do not equal that of the one CEO of the insurance company we use for the employees, whose annual pay last time I looked was about $12 million in base pay and about another $10-12 million in perks.  OF COURSE health care costs have been going up!  </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t even venture into a discussion about the &#8220;masters and commanders&#8221; of the female reproductive system: the religious right and the roman catholic church.  The whole thing is a farce.  </p>
<p>The Obama administration has received my very last dime and my very last vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren Reichelt</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2527</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren Reichelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2527</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a more complete &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/13/how-vampires-think-goldman-sachs-on-health-care-reform/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;answer&lt;/a&gt; to Jill Schmidt&#039;s question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a more complete <a href="http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/13/how-vampires-think-goldman-sachs-on-health-care-reform/" rel="nofollow">answer</a> to Jill Schmidt&#8217;s question.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Brafford</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2526</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Brafford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 06:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2526</guid>
		<description>While some valid points are made, his entire argument rests solely on the idea of a for-profit competition system being fundamentally flawed and rails against a &quot;monopolistic&quot; (which is by definition incorrect, oligopolistic perhaps) health care system.  How does trading one oligopolistic system for a governmental monopoly offer a better choice?  We would be trading a &#039;high cost oligopoly&#039; for &#039;long wait monopoly.&#039;  Does it serve the poor, or anyone else for that matter, to be able to afford coverage they have to wait on when they need it immediately?  Wouldn&#039;t a series of well regulated non-profits be the best option?  You take control away from the &#039;profiteers&#039;, &#039;big money&#039;, &#039;wall street&#039; whatever you want to call them and limit their ability to raise costs unchecked but you retain the fundamental benefits of a competitive system.  I&#039;m obviously on a website with a fundamentally one-sided political agenda; but why is the middle ground always ignored?



Answer: the political primary system; but that&#039;s an entirely separate issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While some valid points are made, his entire argument rests solely on the idea of a for-profit competition system being fundamentally flawed and rails against a &#8220;monopolistic&#8221; (which is by definition incorrect, oligopolistic perhaps) health care system.  How does trading one oligopolistic system for a governmental monopoly offer a better choice?  We would be trading a &#8216;high cost oligopoly&#8217; for &#8216;long wait monopoly.&#8217;  Does it serve the poor, or anyone else for that matter, to be able to afford coverage they have to wait on when they need it immediately?  Wouldn&#8217;t a series of well regulated non-profits be the best option?  You take control away from the &#8216;profiteers&#8217;, &#8216;big money&#8217;, &#8216;wall street&#8217; whatever you want to call them and limit their ability to raise costs unchecked but you retain the fundamental benefits of a competitive system.  I&#8217;m obviously on a website with a fundamentally one-sided political agenda; but why is the middle ground always ignored?</p>
<p>Answer: the political primary system; but that&#8217;s an entirely separate issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Goetz</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2524</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 04:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2524</guid>
		<description>Dennis Kucinich speaks truth to power.  Is Obama listening?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis Kucinich speaks truth to power.  Is Obama listening?</p>
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		<title>By: Brina-Rae Schuchman</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2519</link>
		<dc:creator>Brina-Rae Schuchman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2519</guid>
		<description>Thanks- courageous Reps Kucinich and Massa, who see and speak clearly. The US majority is Female. The bullies in the House passed a bill to FORCE women to buy health insurance that explicitly DENIES essential reproductive health care, from the same greedy rats who colluded to deny &quot;Pre-existing conditions&quot; and other needs that we all paid them for. Ms. Pelosi was smiling. Is the House crazy or Fascist? The Constitution, which Congressmembers swore to protect, REQUIRES Separation of Church and State. That means the Catholic Bishops should have their say, but legislation must be &#039;religion neutral&#039;. The Senate and
Conference and President Obama must really reform health insurance so everyone can get health care they need, without strangers interference. Medicare recipients pay private Blues thousands for Supplemental cover. That could go to non-profit &#039;single-payer&#039; public comprehensive coverage to cover all. Why should Public Health Insurance be &#039;cost neutral&#039; when wars are costing us billions a week, creating a horrific deficit no one demands be cost neutral?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks- courageous Reps Kucinich and Massa, who see and speak clearly. The US majority is Female. The bullies in the House passed a bill to FORCE women to buy health insurance that explicitly DENIES essential reproductive health care, from the same greedy rats who colluded to deny &#8220;Pre-existing conditions&#8221; and other needs that we all paid them for. Ms. Pelosi was smiling. Is the House crazy or Fascist? The Constitution, which Congressmembers swore to protect, REQUIRES Separation of Church and State. That means the Catholic Bishops should have their say, but legislation must be &#8216;religion neutral&#8217;. The Senate and<br />
Conference and President Obama must really reform health insurance so everyone can get health care they need, without strangers interference. Medicare recipients pay private Blues thousands for Supplemental cover. That could go to non-profit &#8216;single-payer&#8217; public comprehensive coverage to cover all. Why should Public Health Insurance be &#8216;cost neutral&#8217; when wars are costing us billions a week, creating a horrific deficit no one demands be cost neutral?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Pearson</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2512</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2512</guid>
		<description>&quot;... rates shall be set at a level that does not exceed 125 percent of the prevailing standard rate for comparable coverage in the individual market.&quot;

Standard rates in the individual market are higher than in the group market. Chances are they can raise most rates more than 25 percent, especially once they raise individual rates before the bill takes effect. Buy Aetna, Humana, and United Health Care.

BTW. Be wary of the Medicare fee structure. It too benefits drug companies and device makers and users. If Medicare rates were standard for everything, the doctors you don&#039;t see, the cardiologists putting stents into coronary arteries and the surgeons, will do just fine. The doctors you need to see, the family practice doc, the pediatrician, the general internist, the psychiatrist, will be out of business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; rates shall be set at a level that does not exceed 125 percent of the prevailing standard rate for comparable coverage in the individual market.&#8221;</p>
<p>Standard rates in the individual market are higher than in the group market. Chances are they can raise most rates more than 25 percent, especially once they raise individual rates before the bill takes effect. Buy Aetna, Humana, and United Health Care.</p>
<p>BTW. Be wary of the Medicare fee structure. It too benefits drug companies and device makers and users. If Medicare rates were standard for everything, the doctors you don&#8217;t see, the cardiologists putting stents into coronary arteries and the surgeons, will do just fine. The doctors you need to see, the family practice doc, the pediatrician, the general internist, the psychiatrist, will be out of business.</p>
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		<title>By: Judi</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2508</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2508</guid>
		<description>Dennis always has the perfect, pragmatic, purposeful and expedient response to the bills they pass and ammendments they shred.....and he does the footwork, walks the walk, instead of just talking the talk.
Pelosi and her henchmen bribe, threaten and cheat the middle class; aligning their weaknesses with the fascism of the robber barons; only the rich will survive this. Obama says this bill needs some fine tuning; Kuchinich says it should be shredded, like his ammendment, and he&#039;s right  on the money.It 
provided the ability for the states to opt- out of the federal program but now they&#039;ll be sued by the rich
health insurers, accustomed to preserve  their lucrative profits as they&#039;ve done for most of the decade, 
reaping double digit profits yearly and making our system the most expensive in the world while we&#039;re 
in economic freefall, while if we went to single-payer now, we could cover everyone and still save 8 bil&#039;n.
What are we waiting for? Frontline has a helthcare program &quot;Sick Around the World&quot; and the countries
all agree, we&#039;d save about 8 billion by going to a single-payer system and would have something we 
could finally live with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis always has the perfect, pragmatic, purposeful and expedient response to the bills they pass and ammendments they shred&#8230;..and he does the footwork, walks the walk, instead of just talking the talk.<br />
Pelosi and her henchmen bribe, threaten and cheat the middle class; aligning their weaknesses with the fascism of the robber barons; only the rich will survive this. Obama says this bill needs some fine tuning; Kuchinich says it should be shredded, like his ammendment, and he&#8217;s right  on the money.It<br />
provided the ability for the states to opt- out of the federal program but now they&#8217;ll be sued by the rich<br />
health insurers, accustomed to preserve  their lucrative profits as they&#8217;ve done for most of the decade,<br />
reaping double digit profits yearly and making our system the most expensive in the world while we&#8217;re<br />
in economic freefall, while if we went to single-payer now, we could cover everyone and still save 8 bil&#8217;n.<br />
What are we waiting for? Frontline has a helthcare program &#8220;Sick Around the World&#8221; and the countries<br />
all agree, we&#8217;d save about 8 billion by going to a single-payer system and would have something we<br />
could finally live with.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2501</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2501</guid>
		<description>So what are we supposed to do, then? Keep things as they are? That&#039;s what Kucinich&#039;s vote amounts to. I want single payer as much as anyone, I&#039;ve supported it for 25 years, but it&#039;s just not going to happen this time around, we have to keep working for it.

That&#039;s why I&#039;m very disappointed with Kucinich&#039;s vote--it was a vote for the status quo, with 45,000,000 people uninsured. So, no kudos from me--rather, brickbats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what are we supposed to do, then? Keep things as they are? That&#8217;s what Kucinich&#8217;s vote amounts to. I want single payer as much as anyone, I&#8217;ve supported it for 25 years, but it&#8217;s just not going to happen this time around, we have to keep working for it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m very disappointed with Kucinich&#8217;s vote&#8211;it was a vote for the status quo, with 45,000,000 people uninsured. So, no kudos from me&#8211;rather, brickbats.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren Reichelt</title>
		<link>http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2009/11/08/kucinich-denounces-health-care-sell-out-by-pelosi-and-the-house-dems/comment-page-1/#comment-2463</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren Reichelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/?p=6699#comment-2463</guid>
		<description>Jill, they don&#039;t like the bill because it imposes strict regulations. They have to actually provide health care to sick people. The bill ends the huge giveaways that were a part of &quot;Medicare Reform&quot; under Bush. They going to work harder and they will make much less money per individual.

The fact that they hate this bill should tell us something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, they don&#8217;t like the bill because it imposes strict regulations. They have to actually provide health care to sick people. The bill ends the huge giveaways that were a part of &#8220;Medicare Reform&#8221; under Bush. They going to work harder and they will make much less money per individual.</p>
<p>The fact that they hate this bill should tell us something.</p>
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